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Anybody else without a warm, fuzzy feeling about assisted openers?
- Thread starter Professor
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 230
AO's are quite useful, but legally are getting into hot water. They are considered automatic here, although it is not in law yet.
Since the Chinese rubbish hit our markets a few people have been murdered using them.
It's not surprising. We have the NY style gravity knife definition too.
Plenty of people mistake them for the gadget factor as it happens. The truth is automatic knives have been around longer than thumb-studs, centuries longer. When they were first invented it was a real convenience factor , for instance it stopped you breaking a nail or for that matter needing two hands
If there was no legislation or stigma attached to them a large majority would carry them, for convenience.
It is centuries they have been around for by the way; The 1600's are the usual period given for their invention, although I have heard 1500's. They were fairly established by the 1800's including U.S production.
Since the Chinese rubbish hit our markets a few people have been murdered using them.
It's not surprising. We have the NY style gravity knife definition too.
Plenty of people mistake them for the gadget factor as it happens. The truth is automatic knives have been around longer than thumb-studs, centuries longer. When they were first invented it was a real convenience factor , for instance it stopped you breaking a nail or for that matter needing two hands
If there was no legislation or stigma attached to them a large majority would carry them, for convenience.
It is centuries they have been around for by the way; The 1600's are the usual period given for their invention, although I have heard 1500's. They were fairly established by the 1800's including U.S production.
- Joined
- May 13, 2007
- Messages
- 504
I like 'em. Convenient and uniform opening every time. I like manuals also, esp. the Axis lock, as they have a greater fun factor. I liken AO knives to automatic transmissions in cars. A manual transmission is great fun and takes some skill, but sometimes it's nice to have the ease of an automatic. I realize the analogy isn't perfect b/c an AO knife isn't the same as an automatic knife, although some may argue otherwise. Regardless, the analogy works.
When the first folding knives were introduced, I'm sure there were those who questioned the wisdom of it. Why add all those unnecessary extra parts when all you need is a sheath for your fixed blade. It's all about convenience and ease of use. And remember, automatic knives were a thriving segment of the knife industry until it fell victim to demagoguery.
I infer from the original post that there may be a concern that a backlash against AO knives may somehow lead to legislation that attempts to ban all one handed opening knives. There may be a grain of truth to that concern. There have always been activist groups seeking to ban one thing or another on both the political right and the left. Unfortunately, it's far easier to stir public outrage to muster the political means to do something than it is to undo something already done. I would rather fight and lose than simply acquiesce by attempting not to offend.
It is interesting to see how once something is criminalized, the general public begins to view the device as inherently sinister over time. Of course the federal law only regulates automatic knives in interstate commerce as the federal government has no police powers b/c it is a government of enumerated powers and lacks the plenary powers reserved to the several States. What a joke that has become.
When the first folding knives were introduced, I'm sure there were those who questioned the wisdom of it. Why add all those unnecessary extra parts when all you need is a sheath for your fixed blade. It's all about convenience and ease of use. And remember, automatic knives were a thriving segment of the knife industry until it fell victim to demagoguery.
I infer from the original post that there may be a concern that a backlash against AO knives may somehow lead to legislation that attempts to ban all one handed opening knives. There may be a grain of truth to that concern. There have always been activist groups seeking to ban one thing or another on both the political right and the left. Unfortunately, it's far easier to stir public outrage to muster the political means to do something than it is to undo something already done. I would rather fight and lose than simply acquiesce by attempting not to offend.
It is interesting to see how once something is criminalized, the general public begins to view the device as inherently sinister over time. Of course the federal law only regulates automatic knives in interstate commerce as the federal government has no police powers b/c it is a government of enumerated powers and lacks the plenary powers reserved to the several States. What a joke that has become.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2006
- Messages
- 44,247
They are not an attraction for me, but they are not a total turn-off, either. If I find a knife that has everything else I like, I won't let the fact that it has assisted open stop me from buying it. But assisted open is not something I crave. It is not a "feature" that I look for in a knife.
oldschool45
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,231
AOs I could take them or leave them. I started carrying a knife in the late 80s early 90s and except for Planes and some Courthouses I havent been without one since. Matter of fact I have one clipped to my boxers now.
When I first started carrying it was a slippie they were slow to open. They I found I could hold most lock blades (lockbacks) by the nail grove and gravity drop/flick them open one handed but this left me with the blade in my hand and not a real good grip on the handle. Ive been known to do this with such varied size knives as the Kershaw Grant County (probably one of the smallest lockbacks out there) or the Kershaw BlackhorseII.
Then 3 things happened in the same knife; 1) the pant/belt clip (no more digging in the pocket for the knife or wearing a belt so you could have the pouch accessible, 2)the liner lock (a hair easier to operate than a lockback but not by much) my palms activate the lock on a lockback way too easily for me and 3) the Thumbstud (took one handed opening of a knife from.an acquired skill to any idiot can do it). The knife was a Kershaw Linerlock ATS-34 partially serrated tanto blade. That was my go to knife for about 6 years.
Then I replaced it with a Kershaw Blur which is still in the rotation today. At the time I bought it I didnt realize it was an AO knife it was just real comfortable in the hand and easy to use. Next up was a Benchmade Nitrous Stryker I bought it for the blade steel and the fact that I could put hardwood scales on it not the AO (which unlike my Blur actually has recoil to it).
My current EDC and favorite is my Kershaw Zing which I love for its looks, Cocobolo scales and its 3D blade, to me is just as jaw dropping beautiful as it is useful. It does not have the AO but it is my first flipper. Eventually I might try a Wave or the lock on the Benchmade Griptillian. AO isnt a must have or a gimmick or a bad thing. Outlaw AO's and I will pull the Omega spring out of my Blur and disconnect the torsion bar from the Stryker and I may not know that their gone.
But let me leave you with a little story. I did a lot of fishing when I lived in Orlando. One day Im fighting a 30 pound Jack Cravel on the Banana River bridge in IndiaAlantic Florida. I one hand opened the Blackhorse ,traditional lockback, to cut the line on a crab trap(it was really in my way) closed and replaced the knife without missing a beat. An AO by itself would not have made that much easier but the clip and the linerlock would have. So put me in the who cares category give me a clip and a solid lock and Im happy the only thing I dont like about them is except for the Stryker you cant make hardwood scales for them. Legally I dont think they will get banned I think it will fall under in common use. If they are banned we will be more absorbed with and concerned with the society that allowed or brought it up than we will be with disarming our AO knives.
Sorry for the long Post.
PS: Sorry Sal I really want to buy a Spyder but I have yet to find one that fits my hand and my personality. The right knife in ZDP-189 might make it happen next year.
When I first started carrying it was a slippie they were slow to open. They I found I could hold most lock blades (lockbacks) by the nail grove and gravity drop/flick them open one handed but this left me with the blade in my hand and not a real good grip on the handle. Ive been known to do this with such varied size knives as the Kershaw Grant County (probably one of the smallest lockbacks out there) or the Kershaw BlackhorseII.
Then 3 things happened in the same knife; 1) the pant/belt clip (no more digging in the pocket for the knife or wearing a belt so you could have the pouch accessible, 2)the liner lock (a hair easier to operate than a lockback but not by much) my palms activate the lock on a lockback way too easily for me and 3) the Thumbstud (took one handed opening of a knife from.an acquired skill to any idiot can do it). The knife was a Kershaw Linerlock ATS-34 partially serrated tanto blade. That was my go to knife for about 6 years.
Then I replaced it with a Kershaw Blur which is still in the rotation today. At the time I bought it I didnt realize it was an AO knife it was just real comfortable in the hand and easy to use. Next up was a Benchmade Nitrous Stryker I bought it for the blade steel and the fact that I could put hardwood scales on it not the AO (which unlike my Blur actually has recoil to it).
My current EDC and favorite is my Kershaw Zing which I love for its looks, Cocobolo scales and its 3D blade, to me is just as jaw dropping beautiful as it is useful. It does not have the AO but it is my first flipper. Eventually I might try a Wave or the lock on the Benchmade Griptillian. AO isnt a must have or a gimmick or a bad thing. Outlaw AO's and I will pull the Omega spring out of my Blur and disconnect the torsion bar from the Stryker and I may not know that their gone.
But let me leave you with a little story. I did a lot of fishing when I lived in Orlando. One day Im fighting a 30 pound Jack Cravel on the Banana River bridge in IndiaAlantic Florida. I one hand opened the Blackhorse ,traditional lockback, to cut the line on a crab trap(it was really in my way) closed and replaced the knife without missing a beat. An AO by itself would not have made that much easier but the clip and the linerlock would have. So put me in the who cares category give me a clip and a solid lock and Im happy the only thing I dont like about them is except for the Stryker you cant make hardwood scales for them. Legally I dont think they will get banned I think it will fall under in common use. If they are banned we will be more absorbed with and concerned with the society that allowed or brought it up than we will be with disarming our AO knives.
Sorry for the long Post.
PS: Sorry Sal I really want to buy a Spyder but I have yet to find one that fits my hand and my personality. The right knife in ZDP-189 might make it happen next year.
While technically legal, I wouldn't expect your average person to be able to tell the difference between an AO and an Auto, and therefore I don't expect a LEO to be able to either.
If I was guaranteed absolutely zero legal issues, I wouldn't mind AO at all. I wouldn't want the knife BECAUSE it was AO, but it would no longer be a strike against it.
If I was guaranteed absolutely zero legal issues, I wouldn't mind AO at all. I wouldn't want the knife BECAUSE it was AO, but it would no longer be a strike against it.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,176
I think the cat is out of the bag. I'm not too worried about them suddenly appearing on radar -- I've seen so many entry-level Kershaw AO's and even the Buck Rush in general use that a few more won't set off any alarms. Maybe it's because I no longer live in CA or NY, but I just don't see bans around every corner anymore.
As far as liking them, I have had them and sold them. Currently, my only assisted is a ZT302 user. I too like the AO mostly on gadget appeal, but I am indeed considering selling the ZT off (but not because it is AO). My wife loves her Buck Rush, though, and it will not be going anywhere.
As far as liking them, I have had them and sold them. Currently, my only assisted is a ZT302 user. I too like the AO mostly on gadget appeal, but I am indeed considering selling the ZT off (but not because it is AO). My wife loves her Buck Rush, though, and it will not be going anywhere.
A warm and fuzzy feeling is not necessary. How about fast, dependable, and utilitarian? I carry a Kershaw Avalanche in my back pocket. It's a decent knife, with or without the spring. Good blade, grippy handle. I'd say the spring action is a definite plus. And it does have a life-time guarantee.
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I have to say that I'm a bit surprised by the comments that AO is useful. I actually like AO, but in my limited experience the difference in speed of deployment can only be measured (if at all) in fractions of a second and I'm not sure how that could make any practical difference other than in a SD context.
For example, while I can deploy a Leek faster than a mini-Grip, I suspect that if I timed it, the difference would be measured only in 10ths if not 100ths of a second. I also have one knife that by design requires two separate movements to open, so the difference is much greater there, but I can still open it in a second or less. So the question that comes to my mind is, in what circumstance other than SD would it be of any advantage or utility to be able to open a knife in .1 seconds as opposed to 1 second?
For example, while I can deploy a Leek faster than a mini-Grip, I suspect that if I timed it, the difference would be measured only in 10ths if not 100ths of a second. I also have one knife that by design requires two separate movements to open, so the difference is much greater there, but I can still open it in a second or less. So the question that comes to my mind is, in what circumstance other than SD would it be of any advantage or utility to be able to open a knife in .1 seconds as opposed to 1 second?
