Anybody know a lot about shotgun slugs?

fulloflead

fulloflead

Joined
May 3, 2002
Messages
6,192
I've got a smoothbore single shot H&R 20-guage. It's a good gun. I've had it ever since I was a kid and it's still in pristine condition. I'm not really "into" long guns, so I'm trying to figure out if my 20 would suffice in a pinch (if the SHTF) as a longer-range defense gun with buckshot - or better, slugs.

Mine has a 3" chamber but I'm pretty sure I always used to shoot 2 3/4" ammo through it.

All I've been able to figure out from searches is that I need "rifled" slugs and it shouldn't hurt the gun to shoot any 2 3/4" round (even slugs) through it, but that's all I know.

I can't find 3" rifled slugs, even on MidwayUSA, anyway.

Can anyone offer any other input?

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Hydra Shock, another hollowpoint, and sabot slugs.

Check out the specs and try some.

Best way to tell what will work with you, 20's trade muzzle energy for FPS, they are higher velocity.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Hydra Shock, another hollowpoint, and sabot slugs.
Click to expand...

I THOUGHT I had it figured out that for "sabot" slugs you had to have a rifled barrel slug gun. Mine has a smooth bore. Even if they do work, won't they become unstable past like 20 yards?

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You need a rifled barrel for sabot. Go out and buy a couple of boxes of different brands of "Foster" or "Rifled" slugs. The foster, or rifled, slug is a hollow based solid lead projectile with "rifling" on the outside of the slug body. While this may or may not induce spin to stabalize the slug, the hollow base and weight forward design will allow the projectile to fly much like a badmitton shuttlecock. There aren't that many options for 20 ga slugs really, but just buy several brands and see what shoots best out of your gun. As you have already heard, you can shoot 2 3/4 shells out of a 3 inch chamber all day long.
As far as what kind of performance to expect, to qualify on my dept's slug course we have to maintain 8 of 10 rounds inside a 10 inch circle fired at speed with the majority of rounds fired at 25 and 50 yds. This is fired out of a 14 inch barreled 12 ga 870 with only a ramped bead front sight. The sight is bigger than the target at 50 yds but most officers have no problem with the course. With my personal Benelli Nova with Ghost Ring sights I can usually keep a 6 inch five shot group at 50 yards. Its not a precision tool, but I am more than happy with that level of accuracy from a smoothbore platform hurling an ounce of lead. I have absolute confidence in my ability to hit a torso out to 100 yards and a head shot out to 35 yards or so. Out past 100 they start dropping pretty fast though.
Dept policy on the shotgun (and one of the few times I agree with policy) is that buckshot is for out to about 25 yards, slugs for longer shots, hard targets, or where more precision than buck is desired. We issue Federal "reduced recoil" buck and slug and have had good results. I keep my Nova at home loaded with the reduced 00 buck and keep slugs on the side saddle. Oddly similar to how I keep my work shotgun loaded.

As an aside and evidence that no shoulder fired weapon is 100 percent effective, a couple of years ago a buy bust went bad and the back up team came in and center punched the bad guy in the chest with a 12 ga slug. He was incapacitated by the hit, but survived the wound. Thats a .72 caliber one ounce lead projectile travelling at about 1500 fps at a range of less than 20 feet. Kind of makes that whole 9mm vs 45 acp debate a little pointless eh? Some folks are just durable.
 
Copaup,
You rock! Thanks, man. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Yeah, that shooting story is a trip. I bet that guy feels lucky!

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Not really! The senario you just posted, points out once again, to stop instantly, is important. We're, not looking for killing power, but rather stopping power. Sounds like the slug did its job. That is exactly what were looking for in a defensive arm. You just about have to stoot some one to death to stop them with those damed nines. thats a joke, Hee!Hee!. I've seen several bad guys just not stop when center hit with a nine. Most died later. When it no longer mattered. Now If I can just get Les Baer to build me a 1911 12 ga. Yea! that would work!!!
 
fulloflead said:
I've got a smoothbore single shot H&R 20-guage. It's a good gun. I've had it ever since I was a kid and it's still in pristine condition. I'm not really "into" long guns, so I'm trying to figure out if my 20 would suffice in a pinch (if the SHTF) as a longer-range defense gun with buckshot - or better, slugs.
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Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong. Your H&R single shot 20 gauge is a decent gun, and it is a hell of a lot better than a baseball bat or a tire iron if the SHTF. But, let's be honest - no one in their right mind is going to recommend a single shot 20 ga. as a SHFT gun. My friend just caught a guy breaking into his house a month ago. Was the guy alone? No. He had a buddy waiting in a car outside. Punks get a lot braver when they out number you. In other words, most of the time when you find yourself in a defensive situation, there will be more than one opponent involved.

Even if there is only one bad guy, you will be shooting under stress. The guy will probably be moving, maybe even shooting back at you. What if you miss? If you have a revolver, a Glock, or 1911, you've got at least 5 more options.

How much is your life worth? I see Remington 870 Express shotguns on sale at Big 5 for $270. For not a lot of money, you could get a nice used S&W .357, a 9mm Makarov, or an SKS. If I had a couple of guys breaking into my house, I would pick any one of those over any single shot .20 gauge.

Get a better gun for self defense. It will hold it's value, provide you with years of enjoyment, and may even save your life or the life of a loved one some day.

That's not a bad return for equivalent of 9 trips to the gas station.

Bruise
 
Bruise Lee said:
Don't get me wrong. Your H&R single shot 20 gauge is a decent gun, and it is a hell of a lot better than a baseball bat or a tire iron if the SHTF. But, let's be honest - no one in their right mind is going to recommend a single shot 20 ga. as a SHFT gun. My friend just caught a guy breaking into his house a month ago. Was the guy alone? No. He had a buddy waiting in a car outside. Punks get a lot braver when they out number you. In other words, most of the time when you find yourself in a defensive situation, there will be more than one opponent involved.

Even if there is only one bad guy, you will be shooting under stress. The guy will probably be moving, maybe even shooting back at you. What if you miss? If you have a revolver, a Glock, or 1911, you've got at least 5 more options.
Click to expand...

I've got a Glock and quite a few revolvers too. I was just trying to save myself from buying a long just for "just in case" that I wasn't ever going to shoot.

I should learn to shoot an AR-15, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

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FOL, I might also recommend you look at Federal's Classic Sabot Slug. I'm not sure if they're available in 20 gauge or not, but if they are you might find that you like them. I shoot the 3 in. 12 gauge variety out of my Benelli M1, mostly for pig hunts. We're talkin about an hourglass shaped, .50 cal, 450 grain slug of lead smoking along at 1550 fps. The accuracy is very good, although they kick like a friggin mule. They recommend for "greatest accuracy" that you use these with either a rifled barrel or a rifled choke tube. It's not an absolute requirement, however. I only have the rifled choke tube on mine but it works very well. If yours allows for interchangeable choke tubes, this might be a good way to go.
 
Bronco said:
They recommend for "greatest accuracy" that you use these with either a rifled barrel or a rifled choke tube. It's not an absolute requirement, however. I only have the rifled choke tube on mine but it works very well. If yours allows for interchangeable choke tubes, this might be a good way to go.
Click to expand...

That's good info, thanks. I guess I could try the saboted ones at different ranges and see. Mine isn't threaded for a choke tube either.

Bronco said:
I shoot the 3 in. 12 gauge variety out of my Benelli M1, mostly for pig hunts. We're talkin about an hourglass shaped, .50 cal, 450 grain slug of lead smoking along at 1550 fps. The accuracy is very good, although they kick like a friggin mule.
Click to expand...

Mine is a youth model and it's pretty light which is actually one of the reasons I like it because I'm a guy of small physical stature. Last time I shot it, years ago, a buddy and I were shooting clay birds. He was shooting a full-size (adult) pump that weighed a lot more. Just for laughs we traded for a while. The first time he fired mine he yelled, "SON OF A.....!", and that was with 2 3/4" squirrel loads. After a day of that my shoulder had a decent-sized purple spot on it.

I'm not a wuss about recoil though. The only thing that bothers me is scope bite because I've had some bad experiences with it in the past. I like bigbore sixguns and the shotgun recoil doesn't bother me, but rifle scopes look like big razor blades to me.

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If you want to go exotic, try MCA out of alaska. They make inserts to put
in the barrel that allow you to fire rifle rounds out of a shotgun.


I think they are called "sub caliber" devices. So you can be firing .45 out
of your twenty gauge.
 
fixer27 said:
If you want to go exotic, try MCA out of alaska. They make inserts to put
in the barrel that allow you to fire rifle rounds out of a shotgun.


I think they are called "sub caliber" devices. So you can be firing .45 out
of your twenty gauge.
Click to expand...

Not only is that an interesting idea, but it sounds like fun too. :D
I'm going to check that out. Got a link handy by any chance?
 
fulloflead said:
Not only is that an interesting idea, but it sounds like fun too. :D
I'm going to check that out. Got a link handy by any chance?
Click to expand...

Now he wants a link to. :p

try www.mcace.com

they cost about 25-35 dollars and are available for both rifles and shotguns.
 
fixer27 said:
Now he wants a link to. :p

try www.mcace.com

they cost about 25-35 dollars and are available for both rifles and shotguns.
Click to expand...


Can I borrow 35 dollars? ;) :p

Actually, they didn't look that good. Didn't like the calibers and the full-length one was $95. This single shot shotgun I have is probably only worth that.

.
 
fulloflead said:
Can I borrow 35 dollars? ;) :p


.
Click to expand...

Actually I would loan you the dough but I am planning on donating 30 dollars
to help out with this Katrina mess. Charity and all that.
 
fixer27 said:
Actually I would loan you the dough but I am planning on donating 30 dollars
to help out with this Katrina mess. Charity and all that.
Click to expand...

I know you would. I was kidding anyway. ;)

.
 
fulloflead said:
I know you would. I was kidding anyway. ;)

.
Click to expand...

You are disappointing me, here I thought you would have a witty response
and all you have is this? Sheeesh. :D

Actually if you don't like the mca products, check out the specailty rounds
such as "Dragon's Breath, Fleschettes, CS gas" neat stuff really but they
can be expensive. Think 8 dollars for 4 rounds. The dragon breath rounds
are sort of like a ....... well you look them up. :p
 
fulloflead said:
The first time he fired mine he yelled, "SON OF A.....!", and that was with 2 3/4" squirrel loads. After a day of that my shoulder had a decent-sized purple spot on it.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. The M1 weighs about 7 lbs. I've never received so much shoulder abuse from any other long gun than when I shoot the sabots through this one.
 
I'd suggest staying away from all the new super slugs and just going with a plain old 2 3/4" rifled slug, or reduced recoil slug. In a youth sized 20 gauge, a flatter shooting slug that hits harder at 150 yards isn't going to gain you any real advantage. It probably doesn't have good enough sites to let you judge holdover and make accurate shots at longer ranges anyhow.
To top it off, the recoil might not be enough to stop you from shooting, but it will probably be hard to control. I think this is even more important with a single shot, as you already have more time involved in a follow up shot. And instead of only having to get the gun back on target, you have to have the presence of mind to get the gun open, loaded and closed, and then back on target. The last thing you want in an emergency situation, is to be trying to do that with a gun that rocks you back a step and makes your arm go numb.
Another thing to think about is what choke your barrel is. I know its fixed, and thats why its important. Its not really recommended to shoot slugs through a full choke.
You might look into a carbine in a pistol caliber. A lever action in .357 or .44 mag would be much better for the role you're wanting to fill, and might work out real well if you have a side arm in the same caliber.
 
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