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Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by razor-edge-knives, Aug 10, 2016.
Wondering how it went, success or failure, and how it held up... =)
+1 for wanting to know!
P.S. Josh I will email you back soon regarding cerakote :thumbup:
It forms zinc or manganese phosphate , this produces a surface which holds oil ,probably the best part of it.More durable than hot blue.
I parkerize nearly every carbon Damascus blade I make and have done several where I parkerized carbon blades before stonewashing rather than acid dip. It is very durable, my own personal edc knife was parkerized about 2 years ago and is still just as black now as it was then. The main difference between the two is I sandblast the plain carbon steel blades before Parkerizing and do not sand blast the Damascus. Here are a couple examples -
i have a parking set up hardley use it tho since i mostly work SS
Lots of top makers in pattern weld are doing it- the Brazilians popularized it more, fairly recently. Check out Sfreddo, Quesenberry, the DesRosiers' work. Gives great contrast for mascus.
I like it because it holds oil. Very durable for how easy it is to do. I use manganese because i like the color better.
Alan, Nice Axis Deer! Your knife still looks good after use. Well done, Larry Lehman
thanks for the input and pics guys! Those look great!! That's amazing the damascus still shows through it!
Did you all just get your parking set up from brownells?
I built my own stainless tank. Well, actually it was built as a water box for a camp stove that I never used for that purpose. I bought my chemicals from Midway USA. Lauer's Manganese Phosphate and Lauer's Black Dip. It was less expensive than Brownell's solution and works great in my opinion. The Black Dip is a pretreatment to get a darker black finish than with the phosphate alone.
i spent 5 days last week with an ABS MS last week and he parkerizes a line of his blades. It was shockingly simple. It was essentially sandblast and dip in the tank for some specified time.
I've done a couple. Turned out pretty good.
We were talking about this a while back and I can't remember which one did which, but the discussion seemed to be that the particular solution that gives you the best black "color" is the one that gives you the more "grainy" finish.
Salem, how do you think it compares to the coffee or the blued finish?
Manganese phosphate is very dark grey to black. The depth/darkness of the black can be varied by the time spent in solution or by dipping in another etch solution prior to phosphatizing.
Zinc phosphate is the dark grey you normally see on parkerized AR15 barrels.
Graininess of the finish is more dependent of the surface profile left by how the part was blasted prior to phosphatizing than whether it was done with manganese or zinc, in my opinion.
Joe, I can only speak to knives I've seen, not made here... and not all parkerized/phosphated knives I've seen are equal in blackness. But, when done by some of them Brazilian fellas, the black is super dark and from what I hear all around, it's the most durable, even above hot bluing.
The only thing that gives me pause is the temperature involved in treatment. When treating a complex integral knife, I'd be worried about resisting the handle and then trusting to dip it in 170 degree chemicals. But, I guess that's what some folks successfully do. Perhaps it's one of those things that sounds impossible until practice reveals that it's not so bad.
Damn, that looks good! Did he use the pre-dip, too, or just the manganese?
yeah I thoughts so too!
AFAIK, just the manganese, he didn't mention any pre-dip
Pre-dip does essentially the same thing as ferric chloride in prepping the surface, so damascus guys tend not to use it...
They make a black dip that you use just before placing in the phosphate solution. With out it, the zinc phosphate comes out a light grey, the manganese phosphate comes out dark gray. I use it on every Damascus blade I parkerize.