Anyone have an opinion on this Compound?

O

Omega Leather Works

Joined
Jun 13, 2007
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I'm guessing that no one has used it but it seems unique. Or not, I'm not sure. I'll include what it says on the website, but I thought I saw somewhere where it said that it's made with waxes or something that makes it smooth.

The pale is made with aluminum oxide and the dark silicone carbide. Are those the normal ingredients for compounds? I may just buy the pale to see. I bought three knives from this maker and they are awesome.

Basically I just want to know if they look like run of the mill compounds to you guys that know more about this stuff than me.

Thanks.

compoundpalesingle.jpg


compounddarksingle.jpg


Sharpening Compound Ready to use sharpening compound. No mixing and measuring, just work it into your strop and you are ready to sharpen. A fine blend of silicon carbide and aluminum oxide in a waxy crayon like mixture. Available in a fine(Pale) or more aggressive(Dark). This generous 3 ounce portion comes in an easy to open tin with a cover to keep your compound fresh.
 
Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide ARE very common sharpening/polishing compounds. Either one could possibly work well, assuming there aren't any quality issues (low concentration of abrasive, impurities, wide ranging particle sizes). I don't know anything of this particular brand, but I don't see why they wouldn't be worth a try, at least.

Looking at the website, it mentions these are a 'fine blend of silicon carbide and aluminum oxide' (interesting to me, that they might be mixed). I'd assume the 'dark' contains a greater percentage of silicon carbide (usually dark/black in color, and is more aggressive than aluminum oxide), and the 'pale' a greater percentage of aluminum oxide (commonly found in white, as well as other colors). Pricing seems quite high for the quantity (3 oz. tin), but I'd assume a lot of that has to do with the particular formulation (waxy paste) for specific use on their strops, and the packaging. Assuming it's of good quality, it should last a long time (as should any stropping compound).


David
 
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The price is a tad high I suppose, but he ships everything free.

David, (Obsessed) since I trust your opinion, would you be willing to try a dollop of the pale compound if I shipped it to you? Assuming I bought some of course.

The reason I ask is because, while I'm pretty happy with my current compound, I'm really trying to take my Opinel to the next level in sharpness. I really want it to pass the hht and as of now I can't seem to get it there. I can get it to break a hair when I drag it across the edge but I want to know if this compound is the answer to my problem.

You can email me too if you want to do that instead of posting here.

Everyone else, I'm very interested in your opinions! :)
 
Without trying the stuff, I really can't give an opinion. The price isn't out of line compared to the better block/crayon compounds. In my experience, AlumOx is much more aggressive than silicon carbide when used in a strop, at least if the stuff is graded for particle size. When fired into a stone, SiC can fracture and leave sharp,angular grinding surfaces, when machine ground and screened it has a much blockier shape, more like a jelly bean. Depends on how the SiC is prepared, there's a big difference in the appearance and action of SiC claimed from the surface of a stone after some grinding, and what you'll get from a lapidary shop.

I'm sure it will work well, not so sure it will get you to a HHT. I'd be surprised if a compound intended for wood carving will be finer than Green CrO or even some of the other white compounds out there.

Keep in mind, shave ready blades are 12 - 16 degrees inclusive for the most part, and that makes a big difference between hair whittling/chopping, and dropping a hair from any angle at the lightest touch.
 
Good info HH as always. Maybe I can shoot some over to you too?

I'm at work right now and after I wrote that to David I went back to work and got to thinking about it and realized that I'm assuming an awful lot by asking someone to test this stuff to such an extreme. Obviously, not everyone is going to have an interest in doing the same kind of sharpening as me, but if either of you are let me know.

Oh, also you kind of started to answer a question that I hadn't asked yet. Right now my Opi is at 20° if I remember correctly. Do you think that I need to go to a more acute angle to hht successfully?
 
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Strigamort said:
Good info HH as always. Maybe I can shoot some over to you too?

I'm at work right now and after I wrote that to David I went back to work and got to thinking about it and realized that I'm assuming an awful lot by asking someone to test this stuff to such an extreme. Obviously, not everyone is going to have an interest in doing the same kind of sharpening as me, but if either of you are let me know.

Oh, also you kind of started to answer a question that I hadn't asked yet. Right now my Opi is at 20° if I remember correctly. Do you think that I need to go to a more acute angle to hht successfully?
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What is your current compound selection?

I'd be happy to test some out, but not sure my answer would be worth the postage:) About all I could really say is that its good, I can't tell, I don't like it but you might, doesn't seem to be any different from brand Z etc. Every answer would only be relative to another compound, and a big part of how well a given compound works will come down to the binder/strop relationship.

If it has multiple abrasives I'd have to surmise its more along the line of Flexcut Gold, in that it will be a balance of aggressive action for a working knife, but have enough refinement to make a reasonably smooth push cutting edge. If it was intended for a super duper hair withering edge, it would probably have one type of highly graded abrasive.

I imagine the black is coarse enough to keep the knife away from a stone for quite a few hours of carving but still be a pretty fine edge, after all its likely intended as a one-two treatment - they have to work together. The white stuff for constant touch ups, the black for when these touch ups start to loose their fizz, a slip stone for when the black starts to loose its fizz.

As for the HHT, I have never gotten an edge to drop a hair from any direction or angle the way a properly honed straight razor will. Gotta remember those razors are single digit bevels/side and have a built in guide. My 'better' efforts will whittle a hair, and my best will drop one. Maybe some of the other forumites can help more with that goal, my preferred edges have more teeth than that...
 
HeavyHanded said:
What is your current compound selection?

I'd be happy to test some out, but not sure my answer would be worth the postage:) About all I could really say is that its good, I can't tell, I don't like it but you might, doesn't seem to be any different from brand Z etc. Every answer would only be relative to another compound, and a big part of how well a given compound works will come down to the binder/strop relationship.

If it has multiple abrasives I'd have to surmise its more along the line of Flexcut Gold, in that it will be a balance of aggressive action for a working knife, but have enough refinement to make a reasonably smooth push cutting edge. If it was intended for a super duper hair withering edge, it would probably have one type of highly graded abrasive.

I imagine the black is coarse enough to keep the knife away from a stone for quite a few hours of carving but still be a pretty fine edge, after all its likely intended as a one-two treatment - they have to work together. The white stuff for constant touch ups, the black for when these touch ups start to loose their fizz, a slip stone for when the black starts to loose its fizz.

As for the HHT, I have never gotten an edge to drop a hair from any direction or angle the way a properly honed straight razor will. Gotta remember those razors are single digit bevels/side and have a built in guide. My 'better' efforts will whittle a hair, and my best will drop one. Maybe some of the other forumites can help more with that goal, my preferred edges have more teeth than that...
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That's a really reasonable post right there. Okay maybe passing off some compound isn't the answer. You're likely right in how relevant (or rather, not relevant) a blind assessment would be.

Perhaps the Opinel is the wrong tool for the job too.

Anyone want make some suggestions on, well, everything needed to do this? I don't want the journey to be easy necessarily. In other words I don't want to just buy a sharp straight razor that will do it out of the box.

Steel choice, sharpening equipment (stones, stropping leather, brand of compound etc...), videos or anything else is welcome.
 
I would suggest the Opinel is the right tool if it is the Carbone blade. It would show pretty fast and painless how effective the different compounds are. You might make some balsa strops to experiment with, and then when you find the "right" one, transfer to your leather strop for final decision. That way you wont be wearing out your leather strop by continually cleaning the different compounds off of it. I made four balsa strops for less than $10, but have only used one of them, and used it without any compound.
Sounds like a fun project that should produce some interesting results and knowledge.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Strigamort said:
The price is a tad high I suppose, but he ships everything free.

David, (Obsessed) since I trust your opinion, would you be willing to try a dollop of the pale compound if I shipped it to you? Assuming I bought some of course.

The reason I ask is because, while I'm pretty happy with my current compound, I'm really trying to take my Opinel to the next level in sharpness. I really want it to pass the hht and as of now I can't seem to get it there. I can get it to break a hair when I drag it across the edge but I want to know if this compound is the answer to my problem.

You can email me too if you want to do that instead of posting here.

Everyone else, I'm very interested in your opinions! :)
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First off, I have ZERO experience with a successful HHT :) That being said, I spend a ridiculous amount of time researching this kinda stuff, and I find a lot of good information regarding the HHT here: http://coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html

From the sounds of it, you are at a level the author considers "HHT-3", and you want to get to "HHT-5" (the silent slicer). I don't mean to take anything away from stropping, but from the looks of the author's data (only their experience, YMMV) the silent slicer is usually achieved when the edge is taken to 10k or finer on a stone before stropping.

That being said, I think the most important point the author makes is that "It depends a bit on the attributes of the hair and moreover on the skills of the honer." I have no doubt that you have incredible skill to get as fair as you have with the HHT. That last little bit sounds like it just takes practice, practice, and more practice. Malcolm Gladwell claims in his books that you attain the level of "expert" when you have done something for 10,000 hours. I think of the HHT as the test of sharpening expertise. Have you stropped for 10,000 hours?
 
bpeezer said:
First off, I have ZERO experience with a successful HHT :) That being said, I spend a ridiculous amount of time researching this kinda stuff, and I find a lot of good information regarding the HHT here: http://coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html

From the sounds of it, you are at a level the author considers "HHT-3", and you want to get to "HHT-5" (the silent slicer). I don't mean to take anything away from stropping, but from the looks of the author's data (only their experience, YMMV) the silent slicer is usually achieved when the edge is taken to 10k or finer on a stone before stropping.

That being said, I think the most important point the author makes is that "It depends a bit on the attributes of the hair and moreover on the skills of the honer." I have no doubt that you have incredible skill to get as fair as you have with the HHT. That last little bit sounds like it just takes practice, practice, and more practice. Malcolm Gladwell claims in his books that you attain the level of "expert" when you have done something for 10,000 hours. I think of the HHT as the test of sharpening expertise. Have you stropped for 10,000 hours?
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Razorsharp Travis puts the Arkansas stone that I have at 3-4k that and an old glazed ceramic Lansky are my finest stones, so a finer stone is probably in order.

10,000 hours stropping? No, but it sure feels like it. :D

Thanks for the link, I've looked that over a couple of times, but it can't hurt to look again.
 
I doubt it will actually take you 10,000 hours :D I also may be more biased towards the stones since I just got two Japanese waterstones...
 
Well I went ahead and ordered a can of the pale stuff. I have no real way to know if it is great or mindblowing (those are the technical grades right? :D ) but I'm going to throw everything I've got (including a lower angle grind) at the Opi.

We'll see.
 
Strigamort said:
Well I went ahead and ordered a can of the pale stuff. I have no real way to know if it is great or mindblowing (those are the technical grades right? :D ) but I'm going to throw everything I've got (including a lower angle grind) at the Opi.

We'll see.
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Very good, let us know how it works/compares to other stuff.

HH
 
Got my can in the mail a couple of days ago, and made a new strop for it since I wanted to avoid any cross contamination issues.

This stuff is unlike any other compound that I've seen or used before. First and foremost, it's entirely unsuitable for polishing an edge. There is a definite grit to it, which puts fine scratches in a mirror polished edge. Another difference is that it's very much like a crayony-y cream... I'm not sure, but I'd say that there is some petroleum jelly in it. Maybe.

It works very well for my carving knives (duh) and I'm very pleased with it in that role.

It'll see plenty of use! ;)

Thanks for all of your help guys.
 
Back in 1772 Jean-Jaques Perret wrote a detailed book on knifemaking for the French Academy of Sciences. It details numerous polishes used then still used now.

Iron oxide
ground seashells
Calcined Tin

and a few other natural compounds that I think were called white and red something, and what geography you could find them in. Most all of them were blended with beeswax to mate them to a polishers wheel. It is really interesting stuff to see. We still use the same today, but we no longer have to aquire or make it ourselves to use it.

EDIT; The polishers wheels in that day and age where huge mechanical arrangments. The worker laid upon a board in front of a wheel that spun in front of them (something around 6-8' diameter I think). They were known to get really bright polishes, but they had a much larger honing platform to work with, it may take some time to do afterall.
 
Sounds like good stuff for its intended purpose. Did some more reading about carving maintenance - came across several recommendations for 600 grit SiC in oil (or vaseline). Stuff leaves a surprising finish for its grit value, probably due to the shape of the abrasive. 1000 grit SiC polishes up steel to a very high shine, 1200 grit (as fine as I have found in a loose grit) makes for nearly a mirror polish. Its very interesting to me that SiC in a vitreous stone produces a real aggressive toothy edge, but the loose grit even at medium particle sizes leaves a very smooth edge when used for stropping.

You ordered the fine stuff, makes me wonder whats actually in it, especially compared to the darker compound.
 
My razors bevel are normally at 4-5* each side. I don't spend time testing my razor on a hht evaluation. If it gives me a good close shave I'm happy. Sharpening for shaving is a different world to enter in to. Something on the order of "You've now entered the Twilight Zone". A place where OCD is accepted. Haa, scary! Anyway, sharpening to 2000 grit (American) then on to stropping on the chromium oxide, green compound, on to linen and on to plain leather or paper. Will give you a nice close shave. Shaving with a straight razor for a year or two would give you the experience your looking for. Good journey, DM
 
David Martin said:
My razors bevel are normally at 4-5* each side. I don't spend time testing my razor on a hht evaluation. If it gives me a good close shave I'm happy. Sharpening for shaving is a different world to enter in to. Something on the order of "You've now entered the Twilight Zone". A place where OCD is accepted. Haa, scary! Anyway, sharpening to 2000 grit (American) then on to stropping on the chromium oxide, green compound, on to linen and on to plain leather or paper. Will give you a nice close shave. Shaving with a straight razor for a year or two would give you the experience your looking for. Good journey, DM
Click to expand...

I'm very much looking into this actually. I've done some reading and I'd need a completely different setup for maintaining a razor. A coticule stone or Belgium blue, then the rest of what you mentioned, the razor, cup, badger hair brush, skin products etc...

The buy in is kind of high, but it really sounds like something I'd like.
HH, I may ask Paul (the owner of the company) what is in the compound. It is kind of driving me crazy. :)
 
ron_m80 said:
Back in 1772 Jean-Jaques Perret wrote a detailed book on knifemaking for the French Academy of Sciences. It details numerous polishes used then still used now.

Iron oxide
ground seashells
Calcined Tin

and a few other natural compounds that I think were called white and red something, and what geography you could find them in. Most all of them were blended with beeswax to mate them to a polishers wheel. It is really interesting stuff to see. We still use the same today, but we no longer have to aquire or make it ourselves to use it.

EDIT; The polishers wheels in that day and age where huge mechanical arrangments. The worker laid upon a board in front of a wheel that spun in front of them (something around 6-8' diameter I think). They were known to get really bright polishes, but they had a much larger honing platform to work with, it may take some time to do afterall.
Click to expand...

Bees wax... That could be it...
 
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