anyone have experience with throwing...

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Aug 30, 2006
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Does anyone here have experience with throwing needles or small darts? I am referring to japanese styles. I am thinking of getting some to throw, and wondering if anyone can shed some light on this aspect of throwing. thanks.
 
Hi

I find the darts that are sold dont usually work that well.

If you are handy you can make your own.

take a nail that is about 1/8" diameter and 3" long, cut off the head and flatten the point like a blade.

Now take a 50 caliber musket ball or larger and drill a hole in it.

Insert tang part of nail into musket ball and then bend tang into a loop.

Tie a piece of 2" wide ribbon about 5" longto the loop

You should end up with these dimensions

Blade: 2"
Loop about 1/2" around
Ribbon 5" long

A bigger musket ball will work better and you will have to play with the ribbon length but these work if made right

Knifesmith
 
I throw needles and can stick them to about 8-10 feet. I use a style based on shuriken throwing but it is my own variation. I throw doll making needles which tend to be longer than most needles, from 4-7 inches.

I also throw shuriken. My favorites are made by Jeff Adams and are identical to this set: http://www.secrets-of-shuriken.com.au/images/jda01.jpg
I hit at about 90% at 8-15 feet and am at about 60-80% at 15-25 feet or so.

I could not find a technique for throwing needles, I did read that one man who mastered it said that he practiced until he could do it, but he could never teach the skill and his students never picked it up. I'd suggest that you do the same thing, practice.

I use a direct hit method for shuriken and needles, though a half turn works well too at longer distances despite not being required for either. I practiced throwing needles indoors and into cardboard, starting close and making thousands of throws before I got any great results.

Let every failed throw motivate you to be calm, patient and try again.

With needles and shuriken I don't throw them, rather I let them throw themselves so to speak, I merely guide them. I use my elbow as a fulcrum and line the projectiles up with my forearm. I fling and push at the same time and let the motion make the needles or shuriken fly out from my hand on their own, instead of trying to throw them or put force into them. It works best when you are relaxed and gentle yet firm, increase the speed for increased power once you get good results, but start out gentle and relaxed.

My arm is never sore from hours of "throwing" these light projectiles. I find their use to be a form of meditation but often put in over an hour a day of practice. I also practice two approaches, I do use conventional or traditional methods to throw, but I also use my own methods, I am much better with my own methods than with convention.

Try to keep in mind being gentle and that you aren't throwing so much as guiding them as they fly out from momentum. This will allow you to throw them quickly while largely relaxed and that will give you greater control over them.

Here is a poem about the act of throwing them:

I am not throwing,
Your path only starts with me
And away you go

I do not throw you
I merely start you upon your path
If I guide you well
You will reach your destination

You leave of your own will
Sliding through my fingers
Through the air,
To stop and tell of your arrival

Emissary of myself
Go quickly and calmly
Forward pressing firmly
with sharp and gentle touch
 
I did remember a guy from some TV program that can throw a needle through a glass screen! The glass screen wasn't thick and he managed to punch a hole through it and pop the ballon opposite!

He was hired by the military if i am not mistakened as an assasin. Not sure if he killed anyone but the needle will be the ultimate conceled weapon around
 
He was hired by the military if i am not mistakened as an assasin. Not sure if he killed anyone but the needle will be the ultimate conceled weapon around
Haven't we talked about this guy before? His claims, to put it mildly, were unsubstantiated but swallowed whole by the American media....
 
I thow small objects in my office for stress release (e.g. chopsticks pens, unbent paperclips, pins and needles) it is fun but not truly deadly, thogh it could be used as a distraction as I close.
 
It is fun to throw those things, why care about how much damage it is going to do. If you want to learn to hurt people just drive poorly or buy a gun.

Lethal force is the hallmark of the brute and idiot. If you are concerned with it then don't even bother learning throwing arts. Not that throwing can't be dangerous, but leave it to people with better judgement than those who are eager to kill any attacker.
 
All skills are useful many are also fun while I do not seek out a killing situation I would not restran from using any of my skills survive in the right situation. and throwing is a skill that can be used in a variety of ways, hunting, defense, snagging an object as a climbing aid etc.
 
Haven't we talked about this guy before? His claims, to put it mildly, were unsubstantiated but swallowed whole by the American media....

If i not mistakened, he is a chinese national. Are we talking bout the same fello? or differnt?:confused:
 
A well thrown object can indeed prevent or end an attack, often with no requirement or representation of lethal force.

When I practice I often aim for shin type areas on my target which is about 6 feet tall and 8 inches wide. I also practice putting the darts in other areas but the foot system is a great self defense target for a thrower.
 
If i not mistakened, he is a chinese national. Are we talking bout the same fello? or differnt?:confused:
Yeah, that's the guy. No one vetted his claims, and no one thought to ask... if the Chinese wanted to assassinate somebody, wouldn't they do it from a long distance, and not rely on a guy whose claim is to pop glass with needles?

That sort of thing.
 
Watchful, for a moment i thought there were more needle assasines out there.

Anyway come to think of it, a needle is almost a useless way of killing someone fast.

If you are firmilar with firearms, you need alot of shots from a .22LR round to kill an animal than a single .50AE :D
 
Poisons, again, eh? Generally not practical.

The more you learn about toxicology, the more dubious this becomes.

First, needles don't hold much poison. You're limited on what you can keep on it during flight, as aerodynamics will peel off most of the material. Having gone through this discussion before, I anticipate some will think "use a hollow needle." Of course, a hollow needle has less consistent weight than a solid needle, and thus throws unpredictably as the weight of the fluid inside transfers from front to back during the throw.

Second, you need to ensure that the poison transfers from the needle to the bloodstream. That's not that easy. On landing, the needle needs to hit a vein to ensure the poison travels to the heart for overall distribution. Some neurotoxins can work just about anywhere it's injected, but will do so more slowly. Even a cobra bite--properly and fully envenomed--can last for hours. That's plenty of time for an assassination victim to seek help, get treatment, or--if none is possible--at least transfer vital information to another and defeat the purpose of the assassination.

Third, it's always down to dosage. A small amount of poison may be lethal to me, but produce only mild irritation to you. Even in toxicology, a poison's lethality is properly listed by its LD50 rating: what is a "lethal dose" to 50% of the population. (Actually medicines are prescribed along similar terms, which is why your doctor needs to know your weight before prescribing prescription drugs to you.) In other words, a dose of "x" will be lethal 50% of the time at the given amount. Double the amount? Then it's like an LD75. To ensure you have an "LD100", so to speak, you need to massively overdose. That requires lots more poison.

Fourth, injected poisons are slow. You can poison someone by four common ways: inhalation (very quick, like poison gases), ingestion (rat poison... depends on how much is digested before vomiting), absorption through skin (rare, and hard to control, like DMSO), and injection. Injection can take up to 24 hours unless massively used.

A small amount of poison on a needle is about as tactically effective as digging a big pit in the middle of a desert and hoping your guy walks into it.

The KGB pulled off a famous assassination using an umbrella that fired a steel pellet into the victim; the pellet contained ricin. And while it killed the victim, a large amount of ricin was used and the poor guy lingered for hours. It was in many ways a success, but in most ways a sloppy execution (especially since the whole thing was figured out quickly by our side).

Plus, once again, think how close the needle assassin needs to get to his victim. Poorly advised!

The simpler, more statistically effective method is still a firearm or an explosive device.
 
A study of curare poisons might pertain. Hypothetically speaking a needle could be grooved starting a cm or so behind the tip, this is to prevent problematic accidents, many natives who hunt with fast acting poisons (and yes some have been used in tribal warfare as well) do not dip the arrows but put the poison, often with a form of binder, behind the tip. The poisons used are not practical for those who lack the right knowledge and means to obtain them and are by no means a viable self defense option.

I'd rather defend myself with a #2 pencil than a poisoned needle.
 
I was not advocating the use of the poison but putting forth a plausible method such an assasin may have used, Ricin, or poison arrow/ dart frogs both have strong poisons and a history of use. This would definately not be usful as self defense.
 
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