Anyone have more experience than me with 8670M?

okzj

okzj

Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
222
...which is NONE!!! :D

I was just going to order a load from Admiral. I'm just not too happy with my 1095 for various reasons, primarily edgeholding. I was going to try something else. I have 0-1 drill rod for forging my EDCs, but I need some flat stock for large hunters, choppers, and campers. Seeing as this is ::close:: to L-6, it should work great, but I wanted to hear about it from some of you who have used it. How is it?

Thanks,
Taylor
 
It works about the same as L-6. I tried some a while back (it is Admiral's L-6 alternative). You should tweak the HT to gain the results you want , but the HT for L-6 is the place to start. Good temperature control and proper soak time is a must. Determine the temper point by starting a bit low and testing the edge until you bring it to the point you like. It will usually be a bit higher than you would think. It is a tough steel (as is L-6).
Stacy
 
Ditto to what was said about the soak time. This isn't one of the steels that you can heat treat properly with a torch, I believe. Should make a great, tough blade, when heat treated properly.
 
What are you quenching your 1095 in? If edge holding is what you're after, the 1095 will be much better than 8670M, but only if you have the right tools and know-how to work it.
 
I've been quenching in ~140-150° ATF, and it hardens... but that's about it. I got some straight mineral oil, and I'm looking at film strength modifiers to get a little faster quench. I just can't justify $50/gal for Parks 50 or any other oil like that. Yeah, I know it would be better. I used to be the chemical engineer for heat transfer oil / general lubricants base stock production for one of the two refineries here in Tulsa. There's a lot more that goes into it than basestock, but mineral oil gets you close, and an additive package gets you closer.
 
This is rather backwards move. The only way that 8670M (or even L6 for that matter) could approach 1095 in edge holding is if the 8670m was heat treated to absolute optimum and the competing 1095 was treated very poorly.
 
I am not sure but i think you are not quenching your 1095 fast enough. I use mineral oil for my 5160 and works great and it needs to be quenched much slower them 1095. I think you need a faster oil for your 1095 to get the results you want. I think that will solve your problems. If you want L6 you should just get it from crucible in round stock and forge it down to flat stock.
 
Well, then I might just stick with the 1095.

Here's the skinny: I did a head to head with one of my 1095 skinners vs an O-1 skinner I made about a year ago and I was just not impressed with the 1095's edge holding vs the O-1. Maybe I just need to stick with it and learn to really get the most out of the 1095. The only thing holding me back from just using O-1 for everything is price. I'm just a hobby maker and I'm just getting started, so there is not a lot of room for expensive steel just yet. It's one thing to use it for EDCs, but getting big enough pieces for a chopper or skinner when I'm just going to sell it for the same price as the EDC makes it to where at the end of the day I'm losing money. That said, I would never compromise quality and that's what this is about. If there's something better than 1095 but cheaper than O-1 I want to use it and get good at it. Maybe I'm just being too hard on the 1095. It makes a great knife, just not as good as the O-1 knife I compared against. Of course, I'm just comparing against myself so I really have no sense of objectivity in the matter.

Oh, and I say skinners and choppers, but I mostly make skinners. Only when requested do i make a chopper... or when I get a wild hair:D
 
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Talk to Aldo and Kelly Cupples about ordering 1084, 5160, 1095, W2 etc. What is your HT process with the 1095? the issue may not be your oil, it may be the rest of your setup.
Personally I would only order from Admiral if they were the last steel supplier on the planet and I was out of magnetite and wood. There are other people on the forums who can sell you better steel and are much more customer focused.

-just a thought

-Page
 
Page,

I do my heating in a gas forge turned way down. for the 1095, I do a clay skim coat, very thin, just to protect against decarb. If I'm going for a hamon I clay the spine. I austenize at 1550 +/- 50° ( just by eye), or just a shade above Tc until I'm reasonably certain that the blade is evenly heated under the clay and all, but no soak per se. I'm constantly moving the blade during this time to get as even a heat as possible. My quench was ATF, but now it's mineral oil. The oil is about a 70SSU oil, so closer to AAA than Parks 50. I'm looking for a poly package that will speed up the quench, but that's neither here nor there. All my blades to this point were in ATF. After quenching, I temper in a toaster oven with a thermometer in it for accuracy. I temper at 400° for 3 hours, just one time. I shield the blade with foil so it doesn't get overheated from radiant heat transfer. This gives me an edge that doesn't chip out.

Hardens fine, cuts fine, but the edge just wears off while skinning. Not necessarily rolls, either. It takes more than a strop to get it sharp again.
 
okzj said:
for the 1095, I do a clay skim coat, very thin, just to protect against decarb.
Click to expand...

If things are iffy on whether your oil is fast enough, seems to me than even a small insulating layer (slowing the cooling speed) could be tipping the scales against you.
 
Try soaking your steel 5 minutes at that temperature. Leave some sacrificial thickness to the gods of decarb. The thread below is in the "newbies good info here" stickie run by Dan Grey at the tom of the forum

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392042

If you are not soaking your steel you are not getting optimal preformance because your carbon is not getting into solution where your iron can use it. (for that matter if you are not soaking O-1 you are not getting the benefits of all of the goodies in the mix of that either)

-Page
 
I'll try soaking the 1095 a little. I soak my O-1 for 10-15 min, but that is SUCH a labor intensive process with moving the piece and adjusting heat to hold everything as steady as I can get it for that amount of time. I did not know 1095 would benefit from soak. I'll try it.
 
Oh,

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the help, not being one to take you guys for granted.

Thanks,
Taylor
 
i have always thought of 1095 as a steel that does not need to soke. once its up to temp its quench time. it does not have any alloys like O1 so it should not need to soke. 1095 is considered a water quenching steel but at the thickness of knives its to fast and will have a very high chance of cracking. but you might try quenching in brine. another thing is you onley have like a few sec max to get it to the quench tank.
 
Hey JT, read the thread I linked to. :) Since 1095 is hypereutechtic the carbon needs a little while to all get into solution so you get even and complete austenization

-Page
 
You might try a muffle in your forge. Some guys say it is the way to go when HT with a forge. Put a piece of pipe in your forge and place the knife inside the pipe. This protects it from the direct blast and the temp stays more stable inside the pipe. Jim
 
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