Anyone heading to Sturgis ?

[jimmyjones]

Cool



Enjoy :thumbup:

 

[rbmcmjr]

Wow, written like some of the posts that claim Busse fans are just into another fad. Not everybody who likes a brand is a stereotype.

You should see some of the spandex clad poseurs (hat tip to anyone who knows this reference, or the significance of my sign off) who ride Ducatis. They spend thousands of dollars on titanium this and carbon fiber that to cut five pounds off the bike weight when they are carrying 20 pounds of fat around their midsections.

Every brand has its fanboys. HD's have just managed to infect the country at large.

My biggest gripe with them is that they don't have a single model that you can sling through a corner without putting your life in jeopardy due to dragging bits and pieces. For me, that is the quintessential element of motorcycling. And the Motor Company ignores that aspect of the sport (except for the Buells). If they built a replica of the old XLCR, I would seriously consider buying it. Deep in my innermost soul, if I am honest with myself, I truly want a 1965 Electra Glide for putting around on sedately.

Give them their due, though: Go for a cross-country trip and you will see HDs, BMWs, and Goldwings, in that order of percentages. Other brands should be so lucky. If I see another Moto Guzzi, I figure it's probably someone I know.

Rick - DoD #65995

 

[jimmyjones]

We got poseurs in HD land it took years for me to be a little tolerant of the 'rubs'.

Some Sunday's I ride the twisties with a couple of Ducs. They think I'm nuts, but they enjoy the sparks.

Big motor, big brakes, I can catch em in the straights but loose them in the turns.


65995:Rick Xxxxxen:SC:rmxxxxxxwod.com

 

[jimmyjones]

Bumpin this old thread.




Question still holds, leaving in the morning.

See Ya !

 

[Eric_425]

Hey, Jimmy! You may be the perfect person to ask... I started to post something on G&G but, since you broached the subject here, I want a HOGs opinion of Hogs.

Alright... I had a lil bike twenty years ago in High School. A 1980 Honda 550 - shaft drive, water cooled, four cylinder. Thing is... I want a bike again. This may have to wait until the move is over so finances can recover, but I see one coming in the future. More than likely, I see trips around town and some commuting to work.

I have no interest in a crotch rocket but want either a standard or cruiser. I've looked at inexpensive Magnas, Viragos, Shadows and Maxims. Even a new (clearance - last model year) Shadow Spirit. I haven't looked at Harleys, Victorys, or Indians due to the co$t.

So, my Busse related question: Busses are hard to explain to some newbies. The expense is on the higher end but the tradeoff is unmatched performance and a lifetime warranty. The Busse HOGs are a bonus!

In Busse terms, explain the Harley to me. I think I know, but I am hoping you can enlighten me in Busse terms. I do think Fat Boys are beautiful - I would rather have torquey cruising than hi-revving performance.

Should I go for simple, cheap Honda maintenance or, based on my cruiser desire, go for a Hog?

Thanks!

I pretty much have to agree with rbmcmjr.
It's really about what you're into. Harley's are for show and to say to say you have a Harley, and that's pretty much it..
Are you into performance and comfort? Or do you want the Harley name?
Harley is inferior in just about every measurable way. There's bikes that are faster, more powerful and more reliable, and that get better gas mileage for less money. It's merit is in more of selling an advertised lifestyle than a product. Either you're into it for that lifestyle or you're into performance/speed/comfort etc.

 

[Eric_425]

An article from American Angst pretty much sums it up.. it's a bit dated and harsh, but has it's points.

Harley Davidson owners are preoccupied with image and sound, so much so that they've forgotten the basic principle that backs up those two aspects; performance. Image and sound are nothing, they are meaningless, without performance, but you can't convince people of that today. Performance. You can't have image and sound without performance to back it up. You just can't. If you try, you've got a facade, a hollow shell and you're just a wannabe hiding within it.

As Americans, we live in the greatest country, the greatest country in the entire world. We, as Americans, are driven to be the first in everything. It's our nature. We're not slackers. We take second best to no one. It's a national point of pride. No one can beat our military, our pride, our technology, our determinedness, or our ingenuity. There is nothing in the world, no problem, no tragedy, no foe too great that America cannot triumph over them.

So, then, I'm afraid to inform you that, in one very important regard, we ARE willing to settle for second best or even worse, last place. America has become complacent in the world, we are content to sit on our fat butts and watch others whiz past at breakneck speed and yet we do nothing. We're getting left behind because we can't keep up. Why? Because we are stuck in a misunderstood and ill-conceived mental rut. I'm talking about motorcycles, American made and built motorcycles; Harley Davidsons to be exact. You see them everywhere, and you know the kind of rider that is usually aboard one. Leather chaps, leather jacket, combat boots, the very epitome of a bad ass biker.

But, that's just a wishful image. All that stuff came out of a corporate catalog... One Harley rider looks like another, pretty much, yet they all claim that they are 'individuals'. Seeing a group of Harleys go past is like watching a cut scene from the movie "The Stepford Wives". They're all identical, they look alike, and they all ride the same thing; junk.

Very few Harleys are truly fast or powerful. Most are just loud rattletraps, over priced dealer wannabes or pieced together hope it works tomorrow wonders. They are paper tigers, all show and no go. You can get a hundred pounds of chrome on one of those motorcycles straight from the factory. Matching leather everything as well, even down to the little official HD logo which is oh so important to this flock behavior mindset. Studded, braided, polished, painted, chromed, but ... it's all flash. It's all custom parts and paint, all jury rigged and low tech. In anything else but a Harley, the extremes that most Harley owners go to would be considered tacky and tasteless, and probably laughable.

The roar of a Harley is really just the growling of a sheep in wolf's clothing, and the bleating of the image driven lemmings that ride them.

Sure, Harleys can be made to perform, but you have to rebuild them from the ground up and by the time that you get any decent performance out of a Harley, you could have bought two or three Japanese bikes for cash. Harley's fastest motorcycle, the Sportster, isn't anywhere near deserving of its name. There is no "sport" to the Sportster, and with a 883cc engine pushing out a meager forty seven horsepower, you have all the makings for a Black Angus set in motion by a mouse fart.

And what about price and cost of upkeep? A top of the line Harley costs many thousands more than a comparable import motorcycle, is less dependable, doesn't enjoy the quality or workmanship, and won't even perform as well. It isn't even close. So, why do so many people flock to HD dealerships and wait in line for months for a Harley? Because they are sheep. Why does a Harley hold its resale value so well when all the cards are stacked against it?

Because of one thing; image.

A underlying factor is also stupidity.

Harley Davidson's stupidity, you ask? Hell no. Harley Davidson is about one of the smartest motorcycle manufacturers in the world. The stupidity can be traced right back to YOU, the unwitting public who buys what Milwaukee is selling and Milwaukee is selling only one thing; image. Image with no substance, image at a price. Anyone can ride a Harley, it just takes lots of money and very little brains. How else can you explain paying so much and receiving so little in return?

Image.

Image is a powerful thing. We, as Americans, want to project a strong image to the rest of the world, but in doing so, we have become lazy. We are now willing to pay large amounts of money to buy an image, rather than go out and earn one for ourselves. We are lazy. It is easier to walk into a motorcycle dealer, buy a new Harley Davidson, and then tell ourselves, "I own a Harley, therefore I am a bad ass because a Harley is a bad ass bike. That movie I watched last night proved that!." than it is to go out and actually prove that we are bad ass. It doesn't matter that you're overweight, ugly, live in a trailer park, on your third marriage, and just lost your job at the cigarette packing plant. Hey, you're bad because you own a Harley. It doesn't matter if your bike is made up of parts from six or ten other Harleys, you are one tough bad ass. All because you own a certain type of motorcycle?

And you're wrong.

kudzunoharley.jpg (23252 bytes)

A Harley isn't a motorcycle. Not a real motorcycle. It is nothing more than a rolling image, a self-propelled personal public relations machine that you rent for your ego, a facade that you strap your legs over when you want to show off to the rest of the world that you are something that you really aren't.

"Hey! I ride a Harley! I'm bad! Don't mess with me or you'll be sorry!"

Whoopee. You and every other Peter Fonda Easy Rider wannabe.

How can you be bad when you don't have any performance? How can you be bad when everything else in the world will whip your ass and hand it to you on a silver platter? How bad are you when a 250cc rice rocket will eat your 883cc Sportster for lunch? I just don't understand the logic behind the image without any performance to back it up ... It's an empty threat. Since when did being bad mean that you got stomped by everything else in the world? I thought that being bad meant that you could take on anything and come back for more. Obviously, Milwaukee uses a different definition for the term "bad."

A scooter will get you from point A to B, and that's what I consider a Harley to be. A big, overpriced ego boosting scooter, geared for people too timid to make a statement to the world any other way than through noise and flash and by paying lots of money. Only posers and wannabes buy Harleys. Oh, and buy the required wallet on a chain, the leather jack boots, the German war helmet, and be sure that your HD comes with all the go-fast goodies like studded leather saddlebags, tassels, and a three square foot windshield. They're essential to the "bad" image.

I love my country but I hate the motorcycles that my country manufactures and I don't think that they come anywhere near being able to be compared to what America is all about or what makes America great. Harley Davidson is a wart on the ass of America. That's the bottom line, no pun intended. I hate Harleys and if you have to know, I don't even consider a Harley to be an American motorcycle. It is a sad, pale product that captures very little of the American experience and doesn't come anywhere near what a real American motorcycle should be. America stands for technology, ingenuity, performance and innovation. Harley stands for none of that. Milwaukee churns out the same tired old designs every year, a piece of this model, a piece of that model, change the tank, paint it black, add forty pounds of chrome and three grand to the price and give it a name like American Historical Limited Edition Super Extra Easy Wide Glide FGXLHR or something equally incoherent and viola!

You have a brand new Harley for this model year.

At least you, the public, think that you do, and the boys in Milwaukee would really want you to believe that, but in reality, this year's 'new' model has the gas tank from three years ago, the forks from fifty years ago, wheels from five years ago, etc., etc., etc. The only thing on that bike you just bought that probably is brand new is the price tag and the rubber it rolls on. Everything else came out of parts bins somewhere in Milwaukee. I don't think that we've seen any innovation from Milwaukee for sixty years now. If Japan, Italy, and Germany did product development the same way that Harley Davidson does, there wouldn't be Honda, Ducati, or BMW bikes. There wouldn't be VCRs, mini-TVs, or Sony Walkmans. We'd all still be listening to wind up phonographs and watching black and white TV through vacuum tubes. And we'd be paying thousands of dollars for it and each one would be named "American Heritage Edition FGXLR TV" or something equally lame.

But they would be nostalgic.

The only reason that I would even consider that a Harley was an American motorcycle is that it is made in Milwaukee, which is a city in the United States (and apparently the population is composed of nothing but sheep). But then Honda makes its motorcycles and some of its cars in the United States, at American built assembly plants, staffed by American workers. Is Honda also an American motorcycle? Honda assembles its cycles and cars over here, on American soil. If you take it down to the barest essentials, a Harley is no more American than a Honda Shadow or a Honda Civic. American made my ass. Who are they fooling? Apparently, enough people to stay in business, which is sad to think that it takes the average mentality of a pack of stale Twinkies(tm) to buy any Harley Davidson product, let alone one of their motorcycles. But people are sheep, and sheep like to be part of flocks, and flocks need a way to identify sheep that belong to them. It is simple brand association at work, much like cattle in the old west were once subjected to and still are today.

Hence the Harley Davidson merchandise and officially licensed products that often have the Harley shield and bar on them, but really don't have much to do with the actual motorcycle experience itself.

Harley's even use Japanese carburetors on their bikes!? Why is that!? Because Japan does it better and has for a long time. The automobile industry has had to play catch up with Japan since the mid-70's and only lately has the market gained against the wave of invasions from the Far East. Milwaukee just hasn't seen the big picture yet. Either that, or they just aren't smart enough to do anything about it. Or maybe Milwaukee has done all it can do, and where it can't compete in technology and production, it chooses to supplement its income by marketing its tired old image as something 'bad', as 'the American dream', and ramming it down the throat of ignorant sheep with more money than brains.

Japan has caught America napping (again) and Milwaukee, sadly, is the only game in town if you want a 'home grown' motorcycle, but what Milwaukee is offering is not worthy of being called 'American' by any stretch of the definition. It's survival of the fittest. Harley was going the same way as the vacuum tube and the Edsel, soon to be extinct, bypassed by technology, until they came up with an angle... get the government to bail you out, take all the handouts that you can, and then sell 'officially licensed' crap at top price while fooling people into thinking that they were buying gold instead of crap.

Performance?

Technology?

Who needs it when you have the power of marketing. Marketers can sell anything to anyone, all they need to do is find their target market. Harley found their target market; fools with too much money and not enough common sense. And Milwaukee is milking it dry for all they can grab.

 

[philwar]

Seems this is an active necro, I will add my 2 cts.
I owned a Springer and a Fat Boy once. I've been riding bikes since I was 14 or so, but they've always been street racers, except for the two Harley's.
I could not agree more with the piece above. Harley's are worthless if you actually like to ride a bike, dangerous in fact. The only redeeming factor I can imagine (and it takes quite a bit of effort) is the rather abstract concept of lifestyle, and the place a Harley might have in it. Almost impossible to define, and who can therefore say it's not valid?

But in every practical and rational aspect, a Harley shouldn't exist. Riding bikes though is not rational, at least, not purely so. For me it's most often a rush (often even when commuting) and so, I will not look down on Harley's and their owners. I won't own one again myself, I've seen and tasted it and it's not for me, but I can understand why someone would ride a Harley, or choose some other form of transport that seems completely irrational and without any redeeming qualities.

Give me a Honda Fireblade anytime (even at 46, ). But having gotten just a bit wiser, I also say, to each his own.

 

[RedbeAR15]

Ride Safe JJ :thumbup: Wish I could make it

Seem to be some real strong feelings here It really doesn't matter what you ride - it's how you ride what you have

I have been riding since I was 5, had my first love affair with a 65 Electra Glide at one of my Dad's softball games, and told myself then, that one day I would have a Harley.

I got out of the scene when I went to college (no money), but returned to riding 15 years ago and bought my first Harley - a 93 Fatboy. I bought a 95 Road King and have never wanted any other model since. I currently ride a 2003 RK. I like the style, looks, and quality of the bike I have, but I love motorcycles - That's the real reason I ride

It really makes no difference to me what others ride or think.

 

[fugawee]

Have a great,safe trip there JimmyJones!
Looking forward to the pic's!

 

[Helle]

Bumpin this old thread.




Question still holds, leaving in the morning.

See Ya !

Be safe and have a great trip JJ.:thumbup:

 

[stricknine]

man jimmy, i would love to go to sturgis and see you, but i will have to take a raincheck, trying to get the whole retirement thing under wraps and then i have a huge conference to assist with in mid-aug, right after the sturgis event, when i get everything straightened out and start my new job, i would love to come to denver, never been in the state of colorado, and just had our second grandbaby, mon night, whohooooo, talking about busy, have fun and do it busse style. know that you will....

 

[grey menace]

Harleys are underpowered, overweight, and overpriced. You are buying a lifestyle not unlike the whole Apple iWhatever concept, not just a motorcycle. If you want a good bike, there are many better choices that provide performance a Harley can only dream of. If you want to display your rugged individualism like all the other lemmings, HD is your ticket.

Rick

P. S. On the other hand, I love the Buell Ulysses.

I really don't believe i'm a lemming, bought my first Harley in 1963, have owned and built 12 Harley's over the years, still ride a 1948 hardtail frame with a 92 inch shovel, won't ride anything newer than a1984 thats when they had Suzuki desighn the evo motor and all the yuppi wanna be's started buying them, Dick alias Grey Menace, old scooter tramp.

 

[rbmcmjr]

There's a certain Satin Jack missing from this photo that I would have expected to see....

Rick - morosely staring down the face of yet another summer without riding

 

[pushingmongo]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm leaning toward starting out again with something inexpensive (ie... Swamp Rat was my gateway drug to Busse) just to reacquaint myself.

I also appreciate the voice of concern - some of you might like to buy some of my blades but NOT from my widow. For what it's worth, I am VERY carefully approaching riding again. Feeling out of control is no fun at my age.

Here's my quick 2 cents. Absolutely take the safety course. Then, if you want to go inexpensive- Yamaha. When youre ready to spend some cash- BMW.

 

[fugawee]

I see you lurking around the forums,
so now that your back,How was it?
How about a report and this years pic's?
Dont forget the gratuitous Hot Biker Chick photo's.