Anyone Interested In A Non Cho Creep, Non Habaki Bolster Khukuri?

Drdan

Drdan

Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,390
I am... Can one be ordered, or are the "dust bunnies" basically set in their ways? Any input from forumites to try to bring about change regarding to these (important for me) parameters? Why is a Rod Allen Banshee with a non habaki bolster (along with some others), while a Chitlangi for example, has the "popular" habaki bolster?

We've all heard that smart businesses cater to the consumers; are you guys "happy with habakis", or would you prefer the traditional, non habaki, no cho creep khukuries?

Dan :)
 
I would be. With the big oversize handle, the cho creep, and the Habaki Bolster I think it puts the cutting edge too far from where you hold it and makes it harder to chop with.
 
Thanks, hollowdweller; I agree; the "old style khuks" were made the way they were after hundreds of years of refinements... The dust bunnies should not be cutting corners for the sake of convenience... :(

Dan :)
 
I believe that the the so called "habaki type bolsters" were copied from a Japanese katana sent by a forumite... The reason for the change was to supposedly to fit the khukuri better in its sheath. When I received my GS, the fit was wonderful; now if I were to invert the sheath, the khukuri would very easily slide out of the sheath and hit the floor, as it did when the person who sharpened it for me discovered. :eek:

Dan :)
 
Sure we're interested. But we're gonna have to take what we can get for now. Nepal ho.

Steve
 
ferguson said:
Sure we're interested. But we're gonna have to take what we can get for now. Nepal ho. Steve
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I used to be very faithful to Mercedes Benz, but no more "Mercedes Ho" for me; some American and Japanese autos have been unbiasedly judged to be of better quality. Mercedes will eventually heed to the proverbial writing on the wall... Can't the forumites here (i.e., regular purchasers of HI's wares, demand [and get] traditional bolsters and "correctly placed" chos? Is there a demand for HI khukuris fashioned before the kamis' evolutionary modifications?

Dan :)
 
Dan, you raise some good points, but I don't think Uncle Bill's health is going to permit it at the moment. Communication with the kamis always seems to be a bit challenging.

--Josh
 
Josh Feltman said:
Dan, you raise some good points, but I don't think Uncle Bill's health is going to permit it at the moment. Communication with the kamis always seems to be a bit challenging.m --Josh
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Nepal ho!

Dan :)
 
Drdan said:
Thanks, hollowdweller; I agree; the "old style khuks" were made the way they were after hundreds of years of refinements... The dust bunnies should not be cutting corners for the sake of convenience... :(

Dan :)
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You know in some ways I do not think that it is fair to say that they are cutting corners for sake of convenience. Things change. Sometimes not for the better and sometimes for the better. Look at it from their point of view, the khurk has been developed the way that it has because it works and by the easiest means available for production. Look at a khurk made a hundred years ago and one made today, they are not the same, but neither of them would be the same as one made two hundred years ago. Some of these people were Kamis long before they started making stuff to sell to other countries. This is why the special orders are such a problem, in there minds they now what is best and it has that effect on the "models" that we send them and the ideas that we pass along. I am not a big fan of the Habaki Bolster either and I am rehandleing my Fox Folly without one, but they saw what they thought was a good idea (the new best way in their eyes) and went with it. Once again I am asking to look at it through their eyes and mindset. I can't explain the cho creep but there must be a reason, I would think that is has something to do with production, once more in their eyes the new best way to do it. Fifty years from now someone could get a Khurk without a Habaki Bolster and without the cho creep and say "man I wish that they would make them the way that they used to with the habaki bolster and I like the cho a little farther out." When you get right down to it if there was just one right way to make a khurk there should be just a few models but there are dozens if not hundreds. Before alot of khurks were made out of rail road track, they then went to car springs. I would like to see them use better steel more then anything else but there is zero chance of that happening, but I would rather them use the springs then the rail road track. I would think that they could get rail road track about as easy as they could get the massive amount of springs that they must use. I would bet that one reason that they use the springs instead of the rail road track is because it would be a lot easier to hammer a khurk out from a somewhat flat wide spring then it would be to hammer one out from a almost square block of track. In this case the springs (in general) are better steel but I would also bet that you couldn't get them to go back to using track (even if was a much better steel) unless that was trurly the only steel that they could get because the springs are so much easier. Once more the new best in their eyes. Yes it can be said that the customer is always right and there is truth in that, but more in our eyes then in theirs (proven by the 3.5 lb Fox Folly that I have when it was supposed to be a quick fighter). This group of Kamis work for a company that treats them better then they have ever been treated in there lives ( I assume that is true given what I have read about the country that they live and the general standared of living) and this is due to people from around the world wanting to buy the best khurk in the world, but I bet that if they had to go back to being the village kami up in the hills that the khurks that they turned out would be more like the ones that we get here and now then the ones that were made a hundred years ago because it is easier to make, which would be better to them for a great number of reasons. Or I could be full of crap and have no idea what I am talking about :D Sorry to be so long and I in no way wanted to step on anyones toes or offend. I hope that I haven't it wasn't what I wanted to do. Feel free to blast away these are just my thoughts. Mark
 
Thanks for your perspective, Mark. It does perhaps explain why "things are as they are." As does hollowdweller, I feel that the khukuri would benefit from enhanced physical mechanics if the cho was a lot closer to the handle; the non habaki bolster would obviously help in this regard also. I must add that I'm FAR from being an expert on the matter! :footinmou

Dan :)
 
For me it puts more pressure from the handle onto my palm, especially with the big fat handles. But yeah like you said the problem is getting them to do it the other way. But the Raffle M43 didn't have one as I remember, so it's possible.
 
Hi Guys
while we are on the subject of bolsters, does anyone know what the "white bolsters" on Villager models are made from? I'm modifiying an AK to reduce the extreme cho creep and just wondered, its non-magnetic BTW
Regards
Phil
 
pmel018 said:
Hi Guys
while we are on the subject of bolsters, does anyone know what the "white bolsters" on Villager models are made from? I'm modifiying an AK to reduce the extreme cho creep and just wondered, its non-magnetic BTW
Regards
Phil
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No one knows for sure. It isn't stainless and Perma Blue type products don't fully work on it either (kinda works but not really spots etc) so there have been some guess but that is about it. Here is link to a current thread here in the shop talk forum that is talking about "white metal" and/or pot metal

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2601743#post2601743
 
Thanks for your perspective, Mark. It does perhaps explain why "things are as they are."

Some of these issues are of our own making. To us a khukuri is a cool wood chopping tool, that can also serve as a general purpose knife. The first thing we do with our khukuries is run outside and hack away at a stack of lumber. I am not very familiar with Nepal, but I doubt that the average ghurka ever had much of an opportunity to chop up 2x4s with his knife; nor, are there anywhere near as many large trees in Nepal as there are here. Add, that we are 50-100 pounds heavier then the average nepali knife user; and, the result has to be a heavier then traditional knife.

n2s
 
pmel018 said:
Hi Guys
while we are on the subject of bolsters, does anyone know what the "white bolsters" on Villager models are made from? I'm modifiying an AK to reduce the extreme cho creep and just wondered, its non-magnetic BTW
Regards
Phil
Click to expand...

i'm going to bet my farm that those bolsters are made of nickel silver.
 
You can get a non-so-called habaki bolster and no cho creep from Lalit's Khukuri House in Katmandu. It might or might not be a good one though.:p

Price will no doubt depend on the perimeters you set on making it. They do accept custom orders.:D
And you would have to send it to the customizer of your choice as it would probablt come directly to you. At least you could check it out and test the hell out of it before you spent money on sprucing it up.
 
I think I've read this thread in a deja vu state 10 times this year...

I'll take what they make. I just try to get a variety, each has its nuances.
Fer 95 USD, my M-43 coulda been spray painted pink and come in a My Little Pony scabbard.

The YCS I have has the tiniest of habaki bolsters (probably because it it made outta actual silver (not the 'german silver' nickel alloy). Spankin new M-43, same thing, and neither has a cho more than an inch from the bolster (now my Sher AK, which I love dearly, has some baad cho creep, but i thot of grinding in another cho or two, call it the dui-cho or tin-cho model!:D)

My only pet peeve is the 'reduced fullering' on the recent AK Bowies, and a few of the last YCSs to trickle outta B.G. Solution? Shake some older models loose from their owners.;)

MY FURTHER RESEARCH YIELDS.................................................
Looking closely at the grinds and where the cho intersects them on my khuks, I think that the cho is added after the primary blade bevel is ground on/forged. They grind the cho where the bevels end to clean up any mismatch where the choil would be (where the cho is). It may be done even later, as I'll have a polished khuk with a fresh-lookin cho most times. Only the enclosed chos look to be done in the forge, with a punch, at the time of forging.
So, I would argue that the kamis place the cho always in the same place, and that is where the blade bevel ends, near the bolster. ALL of my khuks follow this model, as does my HI bowie, kagas katne, and bilton.

Now, I don;t think it'll be any easier to get the blade bevel extended further back, and we should all be glad that HI took customer orders in the 1st place for such reasonable prices. Ever price a falcatta from a custom knife/swordmaker?

Keith
 
See the cho on the marvellous khuk on the bottom? Any HI khuk's cho could be so widened to yer heart's desire.
afghans.jpg

Keith
 
Ferrous Wheel said:
Fer 95 USD, my M-43 coulda been spray painted pink and come in a My Little Pony scabbard.
Click to expand...

Not without some serious copyright issues involving My Little Pony Bladeworks (R) :mad: ;)


Personally, I'm not too keen on cho creep. However, it does seem to serve as an added measure of safety. I've got big hands, and anything under 18" generally doesn't fit my hand all that well. On my BAS, for example, I have to put my thumb up over the bolster for a comfortable grip. Having a little bit of non-sharpened blade next to the handle provides a bit of a safe zone if my hand slips.

--Josh
 
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