Anyone know what Israeli issue knife is?

I am not sure which devisions of the Israeli military are issued this knife, but it is at least one of the knives they use. The below information is taken from a site on the internet.

Believe it or not, these weapons are manufactured in Sheffield England and have been used by Israeli forces for over forty years. The 7" carbon steel blade is parkerized so it doesn't reflect the desert sun. The handle is stacked leather topped off with a steel pommel (similar to the USMC KA-BAR of WWII) a reinforced Black leather sheath is included. The knife measures 11-5/8" overall. New Never Issued. Weighs .71 lbs. for knife and sheath
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Yes - that is the sad truth.

The issue knife is similar to this one.

Privately - many soldiers get their own better knives.

Still - as in many cases in military activity - the most used knife is the small folder or even Leatherman blade...

Oh – that is – when we are not busy taking down sentries…;)
 
Is it just me, or does that knife look an awful lot like a Marine Kabar to anyone else? Blilious, it may not be the very best, but that basic design has served the US forces quite well for over 50 years.
 
Fuller - yes It is very similar to it, and it has also served us well - but it is still a very low level knife...
 
Bilious,
What's wrong with this knife? It seems very straightforward to me so long as the steel is good. Is there another knife that Israeli soldiers prefer?

Tim
 
Toolhead,

Nothing WRONG with it - just lots can be better:

1. The handle is made of leather. Leather rots in humidity. Israel is half desert and half "tropical"... some areas have 80-90% humidity in the summer. You sweat, you wet the handle, and it goes away. Simple as that.

2. The steel rusts - this is a military knife and these are soldiers we're talking about - they don’t always have time to take care of all their gear. Given the odd 5 minutes for gear service - they will always take care of their weapon and make sure their magazines are full. The knife is forgotten (low and behold the horror...) and it rusts.

3. The sheath really sucks. It’s low quality leather. All that has been said about the handle is double true here. Try crossing water with a sheath like that...you can get the knife dry - but you need a week off to dry the sheath. Guess what - you don't have a week...

4. Oh - and the steel is not that good either...

"Is there another knife that Israeli soldiers prefer?"

4. This soldier prefers other knives...now all that needs to be done is get Simonich Rinaldi and Hossom (and others too) to make as many as needed...

Oh - and get the IDF to pay for them...
 
I just remembered - some units are (or were) issued AK-47's and the likes..

They came with the Russian bayonet - that is a sweet little knife.

You gotta love the wire cutting ability...

You can also knock someone unconscious with the sheath alone...LOL
 
I;ve heard from several people that those AK bayonets cannot hold an edge to save their lives.
 
It seems that both Israel and America suffer from an absolute lack of understanding within the supply system as to what a field knife needs to be. For example, do any of you remember the monstrosity that Buck came out with for issue to sepc ops? The thing with the spikes on the hlt to make it into a grappling hook?

Now the M9 bayonets are made with high tech 420j2 and are still heavy and poorly designed. Why can't these wonderful armies hire someone who knows what they are doing to produce a good filed knife? Like Becker? Honestly...
 
I don't know much....(obviously)...

but...

I have in my pocession a WWII issue KA-BAR with the original leather sheath and the original leather stacked handle. The parkerization has long since worn off. It is neither rotted not rusted and is easy to maintain 'razor sharp'. Like any blade of this type you can tell it has been used-the profile is different, and there are the tell tale signs of someone using the pommel as a hammer. The blade is dinged in spots also. I like to think that it has 'character'. It is a solid knife from pommel to tip, and the handle although blackened by age and oil is tight as if it were new. I would confidently carry it anywhere, and do so often.

One thing though that I can never figure out is why the blades that literally set the standard of what a 'duty' or 'survival' or 'combat' knife should be, are so maligned. Do I HAVE to spend $250 to 'feel' well equipped? I have never served in combat but it seems to me that most of these blades are used for far more mundane tasks than we often imagine them to be. As to their use as a weapon-will a $250 sharpened blade stab or slice an enemy any more dead than a $50 KA-BAR blade? How many 'sentries' does the average grunt throat slash in a typical engagement? It seems to me that 'sharp' would be the determining factor here. Don't get me wrong-I am a knife knut and I believe in carrying the best one can afford, but I would not feel ill-equipped with that 50 year old KA-BAR at my side.

Should our governments provide us with the best? YES!!! Sure they should. I am in total agreement with that. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with a practical, simple, combat proven design either. Yea and those AK bayonets suck, have you ever seen one? There's a blade I could throw away without a tear.

Oh and BTW, that KA-BAR I described above was carried by my Grandfather in combat in the Pacific.
(maybe soldiers had more time for equipment maintenance back then....)

Just my humble observations...

Sincerely,

Mongrel
 
I am not going to say that the Ka-Bar is a bad design, but it is dated. What gets me is when we do get new equipment, but it is just gimmicky. Aforementioned Buck knife and the new bayonet are perfect examples: heavy, poorly desgined and expensive.
 
Please understand that I ask this in a very good spirit... :)

I am curious, for those who are in the military would you rather have that 4lb (guessing!) M9 buck monstrosity or a nice reasonable 'but dated' KA-BAR in a brand new Kydex sheath for your primary field knife?

The only concession is that you would have either an older version bayonet (in addition to the KA-BAR) or no bayonet at all.

Seriously sincere and again only in the best forum spirit! :D

Mongrel
 
Blilious, when I consider that the Galil ARM was designed with a bottle opener built into the forestock so that the soldiers would stop using their magasine lips to open their beer/soda bottles, it seems to me a real curiosity that the IDF would issue a knife that has a stacked leather washer hilt. I know that they can last if given adequate care, just as Mongrel has noted, and just as many thousands so Kabar owners have known for 50 years, as have the people lucky enough to own the older Randalls, all of which had stacked leather washer hilts as standard, if I am not mistaken. But it does require some care, and I was under the impression that the IDF tried to "soldier-proof" their issue equipment. '"Curioser and curioser", said Alice.'

Mongrel, the reason that your Grandfather's Kabar may have survived as well as it did is the oil on the leather hilt. It may have gotten enough of some type of oil that would not attack the leather, but would act as a preservative on it through intent or accident, who knows. And I cannot speak from first hand experience, but I have read of and heard from friends who did serve in combat who tell stories of using Randalls to open 55 gallon oil or fuel drums, cutting through the skins of various types of aircraft, and numerous other uses that were NOT taking out sentries or killing somebody in combat. I would venture, from what I have read and heard, that knives are used for combat a small minority of the time in modern warfare. A knife is used very much more for utility, bt it is extremely important that it be sharp and ready when the few times that you need it for combat do arise. And that is where the more expensive knife earns its price. Perhaps those "who have seen the elephant" would care to comment.
 
OK I'm on my way to Israel June 1-June 14...
bearing all sorts of gifts for Gadi...they are sharp and heavy!( guilt guilt! Gadi do you feel bad yet?)
I'm bringing CRMIPTs and GUntings over to Israel...and
I'm bringing my prototype Rob Simonich Gunting Fixed blade over to Israel for them to see..as well as the Newton-Olesen prototype models..
these knives are real user knives..As soon as I have the proto from Mick ( Strider) and Rob Patton I'll bring those over as well.
I'll have them @ the table @ the Security Expo in Tel Aviv and @ the Commandments of Steel..
and the following seminars..
Gadi & Guy have both fondled these already..
I don't know if I can get Jerry Hossom to make a Hossom Gunting fixed blade..but who knows..
( hint Jerry hint!)
Most military and LEO administrators judge tools by price rather than life saving or usability...and knives rank lower than tools in their eyes..
But we'll work to change that!..

bram
 
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