Anyone own a Spartan George V-14 Dagger?

I'd love to get one and would if daggers weren't illegal where I live. I'm not a collector so to justify the purchase I'd need to be able to carry the thing. I can tell you that spartan blades are top notch. I have, and have had quite a few.

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How you liking that Enyo? I think it is a great little edc fixed blade.

Supposedly it was designed for agents that wanted a little fixed blade they could hide IWB without it being easily noticed. Personally I would hate to use it for self protection because there is very little finger protection.
 
How you liking that Enyo? I think it is a great little edc fixed blade.

Supposedly it was designed for agents that wanted a little fixed blade they could hide IWB without it being easily noticed. Personally I would hate to use it for self protection because there is very little finger protection.
It reminds me of the Benchmade socp,maybe gloves help with the grip? I notice Winkler daggers have no guard at all and the Sog pentagons lack of guard looks scary!
 
It reminds me of the Benchmade socp,maybe gloves help with the grip? I notice Winkler daggers have no guard at all and the Sog pentagons lack of guard looks scary!

The Benchmade SOCP only comes sharpened up half the length of the blade on the double edged version. And on both versions the blade is so obtuse it would need a complete regrind in order to get it sharp.

However putting your finger through the ring and making a firm fist will prevent your hand from slipping down.
 
The Benchmade SOCP only comes sharpened up half the length of the blade on the double edged version. And on both versions the blade is so obtuse it would need a complete regrind in order to get it sharp.

However putting your finger through the ring and making a firm fist will prevent your hand from slipping down.
Ah I see, funny how when you look harder at a design that looks similar you see things that are vastly diffferent.
 
Ah I see, funny how when you look harder at a design that looks similar you see things that are vastly diffferent.

See here the socp double edged is only sharpened about 1/3 up the blade. I started sharpening one side up higher but the blade is so thick that the edge is extremely obtuse so i could get an edge on it but this blade isn’t meant to slice. It is essentially a poignard with a ring on the end.

Poignard, thrusting blade with no edge.
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The edge on the left is how it comes out the box.
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The ring prevents your hand from sliding down. The bottom of your index finger will butt up against the bottom of the ring rather than slide down.
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The Enyo on the other hand offers virtually no finger protection. Your only hope is pushing your thumb against the little thumb ramp and hoping you have a stiff thumb. This limits the knife to sabre grip for fighting. Which imho is not the best fighting grip. As an edc knife it is awesome.
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See here the socp double edged is only sharpened about 1/3 up the blade. I started sharpening one side up higher but the blade is so thick that the edge is extremely obtuse so i could get an edge on it but this blade isn’t meant to slice. It is essentially a poignard with a ring on the end.

Poignard, thrusting blade with no edge.
Thinktank_Birmingham_-_object_1885S00224%281%29.jpg


The edge on the left is how it comes out the box.
gil4MTI.jpg


The ring prevents your hand from sliding down. The bottom of your index finger will butt up against the bottom of the ring rather than slide down.
AnlHS4k.jpg


The Enyo on the other hand offers virtually no finger protection. Your only hope is pushing your thumb against the little thumb ramp and hoping you have a stiff thumb. This limits the knife to sabre grip for fighting. Which imho is not the best fighting grip. As an edc knife it is awesome.
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Ah I think I got the Enyo mixed up with the Spartan CQC Dagger the enyo really does not look like it offers much protection from slippage, I don’t know anything about knife grips but I read the V-42 had a thumb grove so you put your thumb on top of the blade, what are your thoughts on that grip?
 
Ah I think I got the Enyo mixed up with the Spartan CQC Dagger the enyo really does not look like it offers much protection from slippage, I don’t know anything about knife grips but I read the V-42 had a thumb grove so you put your thumb on top of the blade, what are your thoughts on that grip?

Oh I see. I believe Spartan blades calls their version of the SOCP dagger the “cqb tool”.

Well first of all the v42 has a guard so there isn’t much chance of your hand sliding up the blade. The grip where you hold the knife with your thumb against the side of the blade is sort of an older fighting idea I don’t commonly see espoused in modern knife fighting systems. The idea of holding the knife this way is that it presents the edges of the knife horizontally which supposedly makes the knife more easily slip between an enemy’s ribs.

Is it effective? I’m not sure. If you are going to use a knife dÿefensively it is best to get some training. Imho if putting your thumb on the flat of the knife like this doesn’t cause your grip to open up too much then it isn’t a problem.
 
How you liking that Enyo? I think it is a great little edc fixed blade.

Supposedly it was designed for agents that wanted a little fixed blade they could hide IWB without it being easily noticed. Personally I would hate to use it for self protection because there is very little finger protection.
I like it a lot but admittedly I don't carry it much. I prefer a larger concealed fixed blade. I'm not too worried about the grip especially in edge out reverse.
 
I like it a lot but admittedly I don't carry it much. I prefer a larger concealed fixed blade. I'm not too worried about the grip especially in edge out reverse.

Yeah I like it a lot too. One of its best qualities is it is extremely comfortable to carry. Reverse grip edge out is probably the most feasible if you thumb cap the butt.
 
I have considered the Spartan dagger as a carry option, but it's thick stock and narrow blade height likely mean it wont be very sharp and wont be easy to make sharp. I frequently carry a Sog Desert Dagger, which is thinner stock/similar height, but it still needed significant work to become as sharp as I like. I'm not sure on it's (the DD) current edge angle, but it's approx. 3mm of edge height. The DD guard is barely adequate, however. The rubber handle helps.

I also have a couple Randall Model 2s. They are thinly hollow ground, with a wider blade, and aren't a problem getting razor sharp. Also, they have full guards. And they look good. To me, these are the best production daggers I'm aware of. True fighters, in my opinion. Quick in the hand, sharp, secure in hand, and sharp edges. Not prybar thick shanks.

That said, I have not physically held the Spartan, and I do like the way it looks and may still own one one day. Maybe REK could remove a lot of steel and actually get it sharp. And, of course, if it's a wall hanger, it might not matter to you how sharp it's capable of being.

I do have a SOCP (Benchmade) that's been reground (REK), and it's now a fine dagger for it's size.
 
Without Josh of REK, most daggers are nowhere near sharp enough to realize their true potential (as defined by Fairbairn, who knew a thing or two about their use). They would have to be zero-edged, or near zero-edged for that, like the older Gerber Guardian IIs and Mark IIs were. (Occasionally at the cost of too fragile a point in the Mark II's case)

The best fighting dagger design ever imho was the Al Mar Shadow IV, 7.6" blade, in part because it combines the essential feature of a stick tang with a full, guard inclusive, synthetic moulded handle. That handle is, in addition, amazingly well designed and durable, so much so that you have to experience it first hand to truly appreciate its brilliance.

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Being not zero edged, the Seki made blade was of course dull as a butter knife as delivered, and the Aus-6 steel means the sharpening is best left to a professional: Doing it by hand will simply ruin it, no matter how good you, or your guided sharpener, think you are, even if you ignore the immense difficulty of keeping all 4 bevels symmetrical... Take my advice on this and send it to REK.

It is too bad the Shadow IV was not zero ground at the factory (like all Seki made daggers are not either, including the above mentioned SOG Desert Dagger), as it would then really be the ultimate dagger. My Gerber Guardian II is even narrower bladed, and yet because of its near-zero edge, it is still sharper in angle, from the box, than the 17 dps REK masterpiece Josh did on my Shadow IV... The Gerber, even after some use, is still sharper, and easier to sharpen. I guess REK could also "zero" a Seki made dagger, but be warned this is essentially full-on knife making, you will lose all the logos, and the bill will be in consequence...

A modern fighting dagger needs to be sharp, as it is supposed to cut outward after tip insertion. This is where most of them fall flat.

Another modern fad (besides thick or non-zero edges) is the inclusion of full profile tangs and/or heavy handle or pommel materials: Disastrous for any kind of harness inverted carry, where the allowance for long length is there, but not for high weight... The Al Mar Shadow IV is less than an ounce per linear inch of blade, yet the long handle is so light it is still blade heavy: An absolutely unmatched combination anywhere, especially not from customs, because it is only possible from the combination of stick tang design and full moulded-on lightweight synthetic handle materials (hence most custom makers are of no help here). The long discontinued Shadow IVs now rarely go for less than $900 US on Ebay. They started out as low-end sub $200 models in the Al Mar range...

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Gaston
 
I have considered the Spartan dagger as a carry option, but it's thick stock and narrow blade height likely mean it wont be very sharp and wont be easy to make sharp. I frequently carry a Sog Desert Dagger, which is thinner stock/similar height, but it still needed significant work to become as sharp as I like. I'm not sure on it's (the DD) current edge angle, but it's approx. 3mm of edge height. The DD guard is barely adequate, however. The rubber handle helps.

I also have a couple Randall Model 2s. They are thinly hollow ground, with a wider blade, and aren't a problem getting razor sharp. Also, they have full guards. And they look good. To me, these are the best production daggers I'm aware of. True fighters, in my opinion. Quick in the hand, sharp, secure in hand, and sharp edges. Not prybar thick shanks.

That said, I have not physically held the Spartan, and I do like the way it looks and may still own one one day. Maybe REK could remove a lot of steel and actually get it sharp. And, of course, if it's a wall hanger, it might not matter to you how sharp it's capable of being.

I do have a SOCP (Benchmade) that's been reground (REK), and it's now a fine dagger for it's size.
I really wish I could get a Randall model 2 in Australia but they are so rare and cost around $1200 USD here, the Spartan will just be a wall hanger for me I have a dagger maybe you have handled , the Blackhawk UK-SFK? It feels strange in the hand to me though I am not trained in knife fighting but it looks pretty sweet, also while I have a dagger enthusiast here what is your opinion on the Cold Steel Tai Pan it looks to have a wide blade like the Randall but with a tapered handle, Regards Hermit.
 
Without Josh of REK, most daggers are nowhere near sharp enough to realize their true potential (as defined by Fairbairn, who knew a thing or two about their use). They would have to be zero-edged, or near zero-edged for that, like the older Gerber Guardian IIs and Mark IIs were. (Occasionally at the cost of too fragile a point in the Mark II's case)

The best fighting dagger design ever imho was the Al Mar Shadow IV, 7.6" blade, in part because it combines the essential feature of a stick tang with a full, guard inclusive, synthetic moulded handle. That handle is, in addition, amazingly well designed and durable, so much so that you have to experience it first hand to truly appreciate its brilliance.

DXH_3419_zpskiqffj1m.jpg


Being not zero edged, the Seki made blade was of course dull as a butter knife as delivered, and the Aus-6 steel means the sharpening is best left to a professional: Doing it by hand will simply ruin it, no matter how good you, or your guided sharpener, think you are, even if you ignore the immense difficulty of keeping all 4 bevels symmetrical... Take my advice on this and send it to REK.

It is too bad the Shadow IV was not zero ground at the factory (like all Seki made daggers are not either, including the above mentioned SOG Desert Dagger), as it would then really be the ultimate dagger. My Gerber Guardian II is even narrower bladed, and yet because of its near-zero edge, it is still sharper in angle, from the box, than the 17 dps REK masterpiece Josh did on my Shadow IV... The Gerber, even after some use, is still sharper, and easier to sharpen. I guess REK could also "zero" a Seki made dagger, but be warned this is essentially full-on knife making, you will lose all the logos, and the bill will be in consequence...

A modern fighting dagger needs to be sharp, as it is supposed to cut outward after tip insertion. This is where most of them fall flat.

Another modern fad (besides thick or non-zero edges) is the inclusion of full profile tangs and/or heavy handle or pommel materials: Disastrous for any kind of harness inverted carry, where the allowance for long length is there, but not for high weight... The Al Mar Shadow IV is less than an ounce per linear inch of blade, yet the long handle is so light it is still blade heavy: An absolutely unmatched combination anywhere, especially not from customs, because it is only possible from the combination of stick tang design and full moulded-on lightweight synthetic handle materials (hence most custom makers are of no help here). The long discontinued Shadow IVs now rarely go for less than $900 US on Ebay. They started out as low-end sub $200 models in the Al Mar range...

DXH_3326_zpsvuucaufi.jpg


Gaston
That Al Mar looks awesome are they hard to find these days? My friend has a Seki made Sog pentagon it looks truly viscous but the lack of guard scares me. The closest thing I have to a modern fighting dagger is my Blackhawk uksfk it is very sharp though the thick stock and full tang make it pretty heavy indeed. Also what is your opinion on the Cold Steel Tai Pan as a fighting blade? Regards Hermit.
 
The Cold Steel Tai-Pan is a good choice. I would avoid the current 3V model with a black blade, which is Taiwan-made, and has -apparently- workmanship issues around the handle-guard. A proper dagger should be stainless, but a good deal on a 3V one is probably not the end of the world... Try to find one in stainless or San-Mai, as they are Japanese made and that is worth a huge premium right there. I don't buy the hype of Taiwan 3V being better than Japanese Aus-8: I would absolutely pay much more for Japanese Aus-8, VG-10 or San Mai, these 3 being equal to my mind.

All the Cold Steel Tai-Pans are claimed to be very sharp for daggers: I think they would still need the help of a trip to REK, but once done they should be excellent.

They are probably the best combat daggers currently in production, but the bulky metallic guard and heavy metal pommel accounts for their weight of 11 ounces: 7.5 to 8.5 ounces, a good 25% less, would have been ideal.

The broad blade does add cutting efficiency in theory, but for inserting the point then "cutting out", edge thinness matters more, as well as a narrower and more acute point: The Tai-Pans tend to be less narrowly pointed than I like, but with a REK re-grind they should be fine: They are the only ones in the 7.5" blade range that are still widely available as quality factory daggers in any case, except for the custom Peter Beauchop Warlock (also a full 7.5" blade) that I know about, which are great designs (and on my grail list): Their edges are said (by direct contact with the maker) to be 17 degrees per side, so not just ice picks, and probably sharper than the Tai Pan as is, despite their narrow blade appearance (this is the smaller Witch as working photos are hard to find):

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They still take orders and would be cheaper at around $500-600 (but probably a bit heavier) than an Al Mar Shadow IV (which are easily found on the auction site, but less sharp as they come, and for around 900-$1000 + a REK job...)

Gaston
 
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... The best fighting dagger design ever imho was the Al Mar Shadow IV, 7.6" blade,..
Sexy lady indeed!
Guess it was a design progression
since the day al mar had worked on placing the serrations
on the mark 2, during his years with gerber.
The pommel on the handle, btw
was designed as a "judo stick"...
http://militarycarryknives.com/SKF2b.jpg
The Witch, Warlock and Recce by Peter Bauchop
had this look to its handles too.
Btw, veteran South African knife makers
took inspiration from the work of the late Angus Arbuckle
https://www.facebook.com/Angus-Arbuckle-Fanpage-259493547575974/
 
The Cold Steel Tai-Pan is a good choice. I would avoid the current 3V model with a black blade, which is Taiwan-made, and has -apparently- workmanship issues around the handle-guard. A proper dagger should be stainless, but a good deal on a 3V one is probably not the end of the world... Try to find one in stainless or San-Mai, as they are Japanese made and that is worth a huge premium right there. I don't buy the hype of Taiwan 3V being better than Japanese Aus-8: I would absolutely pay much more for Japanese Aus-8, VG-10 or San Mai, these 3 being equal to my mind.

All the Cold Steel Tai-Pans are claimed to be very sharp for daggers: I think they would still need the help of a trip to REK, but once done they should be excellent.

They are probably the best combat daggers currently in production, but the bulky metallic guard and heavy metal pommel accounts for their weight of 11 ounces: 7.5 to 8.5 ounces, a good 25% less, would have been ideal.

The broad blade does add cutting efficiency in theory, but for inserting the point then "cutting out", edge thinness matters more, as well as a narrower and more acute point: The Tai-Pans tend to be less narrowly pointed than I like, but with a REK re-grind they should be fine: They are the only ones in the 7.5" blade range that are still widely available as quality factory daggers in any case, except for the custom Peter Beauchop Warlock (also a full 7.5" blade) that I know about, which are great designs (and on my grail list): Their edges are said (by direct contact with the maker) to be 17 degrees per side, so not just ice picks, and probably sharper than the Tai Pan as is, despite their narrow blade appearance:

Witch%20and%20Warlock135609.jpg


They still take orders and would be cheaper at around $500-600 (but probably a bit heavier) than an Al Mar Shadow IV (which are easily found on the auction site, but less sharp as they come, and for around 900-$1000 + a REK job...)

Gaston
In Australia we need a license to import double edged blades so unfortunately I cannot get a Seki made tai pan from eBay international for a while and we don’t seem to have any circulating here. We are getting the new VG10 San Mai Tai pans though, they are made in Taiwan though but have a VG10 core instead of VG1, hopefully they have no issues with the hand guards as I pre ordered one! Those warlocks look fantastic.
 
In Australia we need a license to import double edged blades so unfortunately I cannot get a Seki made tai pan from eBay international for a while and we don’t seem to have any circulating here. We are getting the new VG10 San Mai Tai pans though, they are made in Taiwan though but have a VG10 core instead of VG1, hopefully they have no issues with the hand guards as I pre ordered one! Those warlocks look fantastic.

Check out the Extrema Ratio Pugio and Supressor. Both made in italy, great daggers.

Supressor.
EX312SUPPna.jpg


Pugio, comes with a lousy bulky sheath, so you might have to get one made. Comes single edged as well. I can get this one quite sharp. The grind isn’t overly thick.
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There are also excellent daggers made in italy by Fox knives.

Fox bellum
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Check out the Extrema Ratio Pugio and Supressor. Both made in italy, great daggers.

Supressor.
EX312SUPPna.jpg


Pugio, comes with a lousy bulky sheath, so you might have to get one made. Comes single edged as well. I can get this one quite sharp. The grind isn’t overly thick.
s6lZoPt.jpg


There are also excellent daggers made in italy by Fox knives.

Fox bellum
533441927_tp.jpg
Nice I really like those and can get them in my store online here, the Fox is actually half the price as the Spartan in Aus and looks similar.
 
That Al Mar looks awesome are they hard to find these days? My friend has a Seki made Sog pentagon it looks truly viscous but the lack of guard scares me. The closest thing I have to a modern fighting dagger is my Blackhawk uksfk it is very sharp though the thick stock and full tang make it pretty heavy indeed. Also what is your opinion on the Cold Steel Tai Pan as a fighting blade? Regards Hermit.
H Hermit_Knight Please be careful who's advice you take. Gaston here is known as a troll that spouts constant misinformation. His opinions are discounted by 99.99% of forum members here. I know you are new so I just wanted to give you a heads up.
 
H Hermit_Knight Please be careful who's advice you take. Gaston here is known as a troll that spouts constant misinformation. His opinions are discounted by 99.99% of forum members here. I know you are new so I just wanted to give you a heads up.

So a contemptible attack on character/reputation, devoid of even the pretense of an argument. Stick to whine and cheese, which seems to suit you better.

Gaston
 
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