AO v. Full Auto

Boattale

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I own a BM Barrage and lost a Mini Barrage. To me at least, the AO Barrage is at least the equal of every front opener Auto I've ever seen. The total difference is push a button vs push a stud on the blade. Am I missing anything?
 
I own a BM Barrage and lost a Mini Barrage. To me at least, the AO Barrage is at least the equal of every front opener Auto I've ever seen. The total difference is push a button vs push a stud on the blade. Am I missing anything?
I feel that way about both assisted and automatics. Don’t really see how they perform any better than any other knife that can be flicked open with a thumb stud, flipper etc. if the blade actually opens quicker with a spring, it’s milliseconds and insignificant. And I hate closing spring loaded knives. Not to mention complicating disassembly and maintenance with more small parts.

Imo they’re primarily for the cool factor, all good if that’s what you’re in too. And if quick deployment is important than nothing beats an Emerson.
 
I feel that way about both assisted and automatics. Don’t really see how they perform any better than any other knife that can be flicked open with a thumb stud, flipper etc. if the blade actually opens quicker with a spring, it’s milliseconds and insignificant. And I hate closing spring loaded knives. Not to mention complicating disassembly and maintenance with more small parts.

Imo they’re primarily for the cool factor, all good if that’s what you’re in too. And if quick deployment is important than nothing beats an Emerson.
Strokes for folks. To me at least, just nudging a thumb stud with a resulting solid fast open is a lot more than a cool factor. Closing an Axis lock is second nature one hand deal for me.
 
I’m not a fan of AO, have owned many over the years and other than sometimes fun to fidget with, I prefer manual openers. Some of my assistant opening knives I actually like better de-assisted.

But I’m not a fan of bearing pivots either, I really love the feel of smooth bronze washers, that sebenza feeling. Being drop shutty is actually not something I like, but with the axis style locks I can have it both ways, so that’s ok.

To me, autos and AO feel pretty different, and I prefer full auto to semi.
 
I have cut/almost cut myself on assisted openers more times than I can count. I avoid these days whenever possible. My ol lady has a blur I nicked myself on just last week.
 
I find autos and AOs to operate very differently. Autos, in my experience, require a much more deliberate action to trigger than the majority of assisted openers. I also find the spring strength is significantly higher in most well made autos than in AOs. The Benchmade autos I've had fire MUCH harder than their AOs.

Overall, I like dedicated autos (particularly D/A OTFs) much better than assisted opening folders, which feel much more like a compromise to me. I don't think there's an enormous amount of practical advantage to either over conventional folders, but I enjoy the deliberate, snappy feel of an auto much more.
 
Strokes for folks. To me at least, just nudging a thumb stud with a resulting solid fast open is a lot more than a cool factor. Closing an Axis lock is second nature one hand deal for me.
I actually had a barrage. It was my first nice knife. I never could close it well with one hand. Had trouble overcoming loading the spring. Probably cause of my short fat fingers. I used to close it on my leg.
 
I find autos and AOs to operate very differently. Autos, in my experience, require a much more deliberate action to trigger than the majority of assisted openers. I also find the spring strength is significantly higher in most well made autos than in AOs. The Benchmade autos I've had fire MUCH harder than their AOs.

Overall, I like dedicated autos (particularly D/A OTFs) much better than assisted opening folders, which feel much more like a compromise to me. I don't think there's an enormous amount of practical advantage to either over conventional folders, but I enjoy the deliberate, snappy feel of an auto much more.

I actually had a barrage. It was my first nice knife. I never could close it well with one hand. Had trouble overcoming loading the spring. Probably cause of my short fat fingers. I used to close it on my leg.
AO has nowhere near the utility of a D/A auto.

These comments hit my points; strength of the spring for opening and the ease of closing. To me a true D/A auto is far superior than an AO. I actually don’t like having to close an AO. It either becomes a “two-handed” knife or you have to close the knife against yourself or nearby object.

That is not ideal.

I’ve been in situations where I couldn’t safely/easily close an AO and had to simply, gently, drop the knife.
 
While I have no serious hatred of assisted knives, I agree with Insipid Moniker Insipid Moniker . I feel like most quality manuals can be opened as fast and easy as any assisted, usually one-handed, while side opening autos provide (generally) more positive opening with the deliberate push of a button. Assisted knives kinda seem like an unnecessary compromise.
 
AO has nowhere near the utility of a D/A auto.

These comments hit my points; strength of the spring for opening and the ease of closing. To me a true D/A auto is far superior than an AO. I actually don’t like having to close an AO. It either becomes a “two-handed” knife or you have to close the knife against yourself or nearby object.

That is not ideal.

I’ve been in situations where I couldn’t safely/easily close an AO and had to simply, gently, drop the knife.
That's one practical advantage I will acknowledge. D/A OTFs with decent action can be easily and quickly retracted without putting your fingers in the path of the blade or doing much manipulation at all. That can definitely be a distinct advantage over AO or conventional folders in some, specific situations.
 
I have cut/almost cut myself on assisted openers more times than I can count.

This.

Autos have two states: open and closed. Folders transition between those under your control.

Assisted openers kinda don't, and that 'kinda' tends to get me - the spring will pull the stud away faster than my thumb moves, and then my thumb catches up on the edge.

I do a decent-enough job of finding ways to cut myself without that sort of assistance.
 
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That's one practical advantage I will acknowledge. D/A OTFs with decent action can be easily and quickly retracted without putting your fingers in the path of the blade or doing much manipulation at all. That can definitely be a distinct advantage over AO or conventional folders in some, specific situations.

Once I got into OTFs, side opening autos were sorta... meh. The AO seems to be just as well as a side opening auto for all intents and purpose.
 
For me, AO is just another way to open a knife, and at least with Ken Onion Designs, to keep it closed. On Ken's designs the torsion spring performs both functions. There is no detente or ball bearing. I don't see AO as better than a manual, just different.

Auto's don't enter into the picture for me because they are mostly illegal where I live (2" blade limit). But I feel no draw to them, so it's not an issue to me.

In general, I like AO more than knives with bearings, but not as much as knives with bushings/washers.
 
I think the missing factor basically comes down to the mystique of a switchblade. Yes, an assisted opener operates similarly. If you're getting down to nitpicks I'd say an AO requires more dexterity to open than an auto and the blade is more likely to come open in the pocket, but it's a minor difference.

The history and bans on automatics are what make them attractive to collectors. With modern manuals being just as fast and more reliable, there isn't really much of a practical argument for automatics; they're fidget toys that you can use. And the iconic Italian stiletto is even less useful as a tool; they have awful cutting geometry and shoddy quality for the price. Despite this, these knives are as popular as ever, because they're just cool. There's a reason why a disproportionate amount of knives in movies are switchblades.

So if you mimic the function and feel of a switchblade but remove this mystique, you end up with the less attractive proposition of an assisted opener. I think knife brands know this and have decided not to waste too much energy on this category of knife. There's no reason why you can't make them just as high quality as an automatic, but there isn't much of a market for them. Protech makes one, but it doesn't seem to sell very well. KAI has probably the best AO design out there, but the golden age seems to have passed on those and now there are just a few models left. I'm pretty sure Benchmade used to have more as well, but now they mostly gravitate towards auto or manual.
 
I think the Mini-Barrage might be the strongest/fastest AO I've experienced. And I think it's easier to find and push out its thumb stud than it is to find and push the button on a side-opening automatic or OTF. I EDC'd a Mini-Barrage for about twenty years with no issues other than needing to put some heavy grease on the assist spring to stop it from rattling. I later purchased the large "fancy" version which has a much heavier and less carryable feel to me.

I love OTFs and the allure of side-opening autos but, of all my knives, I think waved Emersons are the quickest to open. Their lack of legal complications is a huge plus, too.
 
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