Apologies and curiousity for stainless

B

Balls Deep

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Jan 2, 2014
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I apoligize for this thread but I didn't see recent similarities. I was curious to know who will take stainless over carbon for steel. Reason I ask is, as ashamed as I am to say, I will. I prefer the more sandvik stainless over carbon, as far as I can tell with my testing, it holds an edge as well as the carbon as far as I know. I'm not that hardcore, I'm not that abusive, but maybe that's the point, as farm as I do my business, it's just as good. Also though, I would personally take a slight loss in the name of no rust. Anyone in a similar camp?
 
Balls Deep said:
I apoligize for this thread but I didn't see recent similarities. I was curious to know who will take stainless over carbon for steel. Reason I ask is, as ashamed as I am to say, I will. I prefer the more sandvik stainless over carbon, as far as I can tell with my testing, it holds an edge as well as the carbon as far as I know. I'm not that hardcore, I'm not that abusive, but maybe that's the point, as farm as I do my business, it's just as good. Also though, I would personally take a slight loss in the name of no rust. Anyone in a similar camp?
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Most people who use a knife are the same way. 12c27 and bucks 420HC will hold an edge like 1095, be as tough as 5160 and both are extremely hard to make rust, even on purpose.

If your doing lots of cutting, chopping, slashing and slicing a good portion of every day simple 12c27 and Bucks 420HC will be more steel than you would ever need.
 
No apologies are necessary, as far as I can see. What works for you works for you, and you're not alone in preferring stainless. If somebody like Case makes more knives in stainless than in carbon, it may be because more people buy stainless knives.
 
I exclusively go for stainless steels (or rust resitant steels if you will). One reason is that I live and work close to the sea. The other is that even with stainless steel I'm not always as conscientious as I should be when it comes to cleaning my knives after use. Sometimes I'll be so busy I'll completely forget about it. I know you can oil your blades to prevent rust, but I dont want to take the chance in forgetting it.

I think that's exactly the reason why stainless steel knives are in production in the first place.
 
Most of the world prefers stainless in knives. Hell, I do all the cooking and my chef's knife is S35VN partly due to corrosion resistance. I take good care of my blades, but after a long day at work followed by cooking dinner it's nice to be able to set the knife down and not immediately rinse and wipe it. If people prefer carbon steel that's all good, but if they dismiss stainless as useless or just generally inferior I kind of mentally tag them as ludites.
 
Different steels are better at different tasks. There is so much variety now days. If you are a knife nut you can do your research and pick knives specific to the task.
 
Balls Deep said:
I apoligize for this thread but I didn't see recent similarities. I was curious to know who will take stainless over carbon for steel. Reason I ask is, as ashamed as I am to say, I will. I prefer the more sandvik stainless over carbon, as far as I can tell with my testing, it holds an edge as well as the carbon as far as I know. I'm not that hardcore, I'm not that abusive, but maybe that's the point, as farm as I do my business, it's just as good. Also though, I would personally take a slight loss in the name of no rust. Anyone in a similar camp?
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BD,

Sandvik 12C27 is an excellent steel.

Oversimplifying things greatly, you can divide the steels into those that have fine carbides and those that have larger carbides. This is sort of like the difference between cement (fine particles like sand) and concrete (large particles like gravel). Steels with larger carbides have their place and their fans. For cutting abrasive materials like cardboard, carbides resist abrasion wear but they also tend to be a bit harder to sharpen and tend to not take take as fine of an edge as fine carbide steels.

At the same time, good fine carbide steels have their uses and their fans too. They tend to be tough, take a fine edge and are easy to sharpen with traditional stones (or coffee mugs).

The thing with fine carbide steels is that among the fine carbide stainless that is available, there is a very wide range of quality. Some fine carbide stainless, like 420J2 or generic 420 can't be hardened up well so it's soft and prone to rolling edges easily. Others, like 420HC and Sandvik 12C27 can be hardened quite high, which is good. But again, it depends on the knife manufacturer and how they harden and temper the steel. Both Buck and Case use 420HC but Buck's is noticeably harder and nicer because of it IMO. All of this is just as true for carbon steel, which is also a form of fine grained steel. Schrade-Walden and Schrade USA did a great job with carbon steel and currently Becker and GEC have good reputations for getting carbon nice and hard. Opinel's Carbon is a bit soft for my tastes. So again, it depends on the heat treat/tempering.

Given equally good heat treat/tempering, I no longer see any advantage to carbon steel. I say this as a former carbon snob. In particular, Buck's 420HC and the 12C27 as done by Opinel and Mora are every bit as good as the very hard 1095 in my older Schrade-Walden and Schrade USA knives. And when you get that sort of edge performance with the general lack of corrosion, it's an easy decision.

I'll still buy carbon steel. I like it a lot. But given an option between carbon steel and well heat treated/tempered 12C27 or 420HC, I'll choose the stainless.
 
There was a time when stainless steels were inferior to good carbon steels. Carbon steels like 1095 can be made very hard and hold an edge very well, though most of the time they are run a bit softer that they can take. It is no longer the case that stainless is inferior, but old knowledge is not easily replaced. Think for a minute whether our jet fighter turbine parts are better for stainless or carbon? The new breed of stainless steels are very good, indeed.
 
I'm with you, OP! I tried for a long time to prefer carbon steel and finally I just had to admit that they're not for me (necessarily). I'm like you in that I don't do anything crazy with my knives and, as such, I'd rather have something that I can use without having to constantly worry about rust. I only have one knife in carbon steel these days, and the rest are stainless, and I can sleep better that way. The one carbon blade that I still have is my dedicated batoning knife, and everything else is stainless. I hated to admit my preference too, but now I just try to own it :thumbup:
 
Revolverrodger said:
For a large chopper I would pick a carbon steel for extra toughness
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The Fox Macio "machete" is made from 12c27 at a 55-57 HRC. It's not thick by chopping standards at .13" but it chops right along side with the best of any carbon steel chopper. They dig deep and edge life is on par or slightly better than the thick heavy carbon steel choppers in 5160 and 1095.

12c27 is more than tough enough for a large chopper. Not all stainless steels are delicate.
 
If you don't stress your blades hard you could get by with either steel. Depending on your needs you should pick the steel that works best. I generally buy stainless steel for folders and carbon steel for fixed blades because I want different characteristics and I expect to use the knives differently.
 
It really depends on what I would be using the knife for. In a fixed blade for general outdoors tasks, I'll take a tool steel or 1095, as impact resistance and ease of sharpening are the most important virtues. In folders, I prefer a well rounded stainless. Super hard steels with super edge retention don't interest me as much anymore, as the difficulty and/or length of time it takes to sharpen is not worth my while. ZDP-189 is the only one of this class that I find relatively easy to sharpen and not incredibly time consuming. At the moment, CPM-S35VN is my favorite stainless, with CTS-XHP a close second.
 
IMHO 12c27 out preforms 1095! Toughness is as good or better than 1095, edge holding capability is better, its just as easy to sharpen, but stain resistance is superior. When I'm out in the woods I prefer to spend my time doing something else than oiling and maintaining my blades... Call me lazy:D

When it comes down to it, Ill take better edge holding capabilities and sacrifice ease of sharpen ability with all of my blades! When stainless is properly heat treated, it can and will be just as tough as carbon. Its why cpm 20cv is one of my favorites.
 
K.O.D. said:
It really depends on what I would be using the knife for. In a fixed blade for general outdoors tasks, I'll take a tool steel or 1095, as impact resistance and ease of sharpening are the most important virtues. In folders, I prefer a well rounded stainless. Super hard steels with super edge retention don't interest me as much anymore, as the difficulty and/or length of time it takes to sharpen is not worth my while. ZDP-189 is the only one of this class that I find relatively easy to sharpen and not incredibly time consuming. At the moment, CPM-S35VN is my favorite stainless, with CTS-XHP a close second.
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KOD, do you really think that 1095 is tougher than fine-carbide stainless steels like 420HC or 12C27?

At similar Rc levels, I can't tell any difference, but then, I'm not doing any sort of standardized testing.
 
I don't have any experience with either of the stainless steels you mention, so I can't really begin to compare. The only Sandvik I've used was Kershaw's 14C28N. Considering that a large percentage of outdoor/"bushcraft" knives use 1095, and my own experience with it, it is a great steel for outdoor chores.
 
pinnah said:
KOD, do you really think that 1095 is tougher than fine-carbide stainless steels like 420HC or 12C27?

At similar Rc levels, I can't tell any difference, but then, I'm not doing any sort of standardized testing.
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Great, another steel argument :barf:

People like what they like. Isn't that enough? Should we get down to the nitty gritty of geometry, heat treat, or even country of manufacture? :eek:

If you like a steel, use it :thumbup:
 
I always prefer stainless steels for almost all of my tasks, since I...well, sweat a lot. And I ALWAYS have a knife on me, so if it doesn't resist rust pretty well, then I will quickly notice it on my EDC knives.

And really, when you get down to it, most stainless steels are just as good as some carbon steels, especially when you get into the higher end of the steel productions.

There are different reasons for each steel, and then some of them are just going to be better than others for different people, whether stainless or not.
 
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