Apprenticeship

S

Shinglowping

Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
26
Hello everyone!

First off this is a fantastic forum and thank you for having me. I live in montreal canada and am an avid collector of knives. My thoughts have recently turned to knife making. The question is: how would one go about gaining an apprenticeship in montreal? Is there a trade school? Anything? I've checked all over the net and can't find a thing. Are there and montreal makers out there that I haven't found? I would dearly appreciate any help any of you could give me if possible. I really would like to get started but rather than rush out and start buying equipment ect ect I would like to be under a master for a year or 2 at least. Any leads?
 
I can't speak for all Bladesmiths/Knifemakers, but I have had a number of people who have contacted me about wanting an apprenticeship. The reason I do not do it, is that for most makers, our knives are a very personal extension of ourselves, and I simply would not feel right selling a knife to a customer that someone else might have worked on. The other portion would be what you consider an apprenticeship? If your looking for a job type situation where you get paid, that opens a whole can of worms for a maker, especially if they are a sole proprietor. Wages, workman's comp, liability, insurance....and most simply cannot afford it. I checked into it ONCE. In order to have someone work for me, it would cost me a minumum of $35 her hour above the wages I paid the individual, if everything was "above board". (that was about 7 years ago, so who knows what it is now).

On the other hand, most of us, have had "Mentors" along the way....established makers that we can vist or call with questions. Another option is to take a class or two with an established maker. Many of us offer this, and it will literally cut years off your learning curve.
 
All excellent points Ed. For some time I have really considered taking on an apprentice, but modern society is not really conducive to "apprenticeships" in the traditional sense, that is, devote whole days to working with a teacher simply for the knowledge to be gained. Little things like having to earn a living tend to get in the way and reduces the concept down to two categories- 1. A payed employee with all the the difficulties you have mentioned, or 2. a Student who pays you for classes which can only go on for so long at the prices we need to make a living ourselves. And a huge issue that applies to both of these situation is insurance, the only reason I am able to afford the business insurance I have now is that I had to swear a blood oath that no other person would ever be in my shop but me.

One other thing for the would be apprentice to consider is why he or the teacher would enter into such an arrangement. It really should be all about the knowledge exchange. Many would be apprentices actually don't care nearly as much about the teachers experience as they do about getting access to equipment and supplies that they do not have in order to make some of their own knives. This would be a rather dishonest misuse of an experienced smith who was looking to share knowledge with others. I know more than a couple of makers who got burned by this type of apprentice and will now not agree to teach until the would be student has shown enough dedication to set up their own shop with at least the basics. On the other side of this coin are the "teachers" who are really only looking for cheap or free labor and end up having half of their work done by others, which I agree 100% with you about.

My interests in an apprentice is to make trudging out into the solitude of the shop a little more interesting, and being able to pass on information and techniques to another while I do them. Basically kill two birds with one stone and make the time pass easier with a little more human interaction in my day. But insurance, wear and tear on equipment (students are very hard on tools), and scheduling has always made teaching through a college or other agency much more practical.

But who knows one day I might find that person close by who is independently wealthy enough to be able to spend two or three days a week just watching me do what I do while I explain why, and then apply it with their tools on their own supplies. Until then There are hammer-ins and other classes.
 
Thank you for the replies. This information is invaluable. I am not looking to do anything more than watch and learn initially. I am not in it to get access to equipment or anything to that effect. Nor do I wish to be paid. I know that the knowledge is out there in books ect, but I know for a fact that the information exchanged between 2 people is always better than what's taken off of a page. I have studied a number of different subjects in my life and have always learned best with private instruction. Money is not my issue, not to say i have inexhaustible wealth, but I can take a year or 2 from my life to dedicate to this. I am at a crossroads in my life and have determined it is time for me to take a risk or two. I love steel, and I'm realizing more everyday that i always have. I guess i have a foolish notion of master/teacher, but isn't that the way it really should be?

Anyhow, concerning these classes and or "hammer ins" do they ever occur in the Montreal area? How would I go about getting onto a mailing list? Thank you all again for your upfront honesty. Any and all information is valued.
 
If you can't find a dedicated bladesmith in your area look up a blacksmith. Most of them know how to make a knife and would probably know about makers in your area. If you've got 2 weeks and can get to Arkansas there's a Intro to Bladesmithing class at the ABS school February 23-March 6 (I think).
 
I'm not a member so I can't really comment on it, but I think about the closest thing is an ABS membership/apprenticeship. They sponsor classes and hammer-ins and all kinds of cool stuff.

Knives 2008 (and previous editions) has an index of makers, listed by location.
I've contacted a couple of folks I found there, and they were all willing to have me over for a day to look around. (Although I haven't taken anyone up on that yet :/ )

In any case get started! You can make a blade with nothing more than two files and your kitchen oven, if that's all you have. Read the sticky threads here.

Don't forget, you can get almost any question you think of answered here, in fact you will often get several alternative answers to choose from.

It occurs to me that you might not want to live under someone else's shadow the rest of your career, either...
 
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Thank you everyone. I'll start by spending a good amount of time perusing the forums here. I know it will not give me all the answers but it's sure to improve my questions.
 
I have mentored several people over the last couple of years and found it very rewarding.
I believe, passing your knowledge and skill to, younger would be, makers, is one way to give back to the knife making community, for all they have given, to help along the way.

It takes a huge amount of practice, knowledge and input from others to become a competent knife maker.
There is so much to learn in order to be considered skilled at this craft.
To make a list of all those that have helped me along the way, would take some serious thought. There have been many.


Even though I am basically self taught, I am a product of every maker, metallurgist, jeweler, wood carver and even the yard guy at the local scrap yard, who took the time to offer me their input.

I agree that spending just a couple of days with a skilled maker, will shave years off your learning curve.
But this is only a starting point.
If you have caught the knife making fever; look around, the knowledge is everywhere. It is your job to sort it out. Absorb and make use of the true and useful, disregard the fantasy and the lies and you will be on your way to becoming a knife maker.:thumbup::D

Fred

The knowledge and skill represented on this site alone, should keep you busy for years.
It has been an invaluable resource for me.
 
You have one major problem in that there are not a lot of knifemakers in Canada and very few blade smiths. The first step would be to contact the Canadian Knifemakers Guild at www.ckg.org Through them you should be able to get information on the Quebec knifemakers association for more local makers.

If you are ever in the Toronto area though please feel free to drop into my shop for a look around and a chat.

George
 
The next time I am in the TO area I will be sure to look you up. I have literally spent days scouring this forum. I feel comfortable enough at this point to venture in making my first fixed blade this coming weekend. I have, for obvious reason's elected to do stock removal. I have read all the debates and/or trolling about hacksaws and files vs grinding etc etc. I'm going to start with filing. I am in no rush and I feel like starting out by hand will really get me in touch with the materials. Craw,l then walk, then run. Doesn't hurt so much to fall if you are only crawling.:D

I'm going to go to Home Depot or Reno Depot or Canadian Tire or where ever to get files, a hacksaw, a bench vice and some other knick knacks. Shouldn't be more than $100 or so I'm thinking. I am however a bit concerned about where to get steel. I was thinking to start out with 5160 for it's ease of use and heating, but do they sell stock at normal hardware stores? I don't seem to remember ever seeing any.

I already have a design drawn that i am pleased with. Very simple. Full tang, exposed punyo, very clean.I will post pics of what goes on step by step including all the mistakes I am no doubt going to make. Any and all feedback is needed, never mind welcome. I have no problem making mistakes, we would never learn a thing otherwise, so let me know. Once again thank you to everyone that has had anything to say. This is a very exciting time for me. I can't even sleep.
 
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