ar-15? whats the best?

zenheretic said:
It does take AR mags. I believe he was saying that the original sig rifle didn't take AR mags, but they should have just retooled it to take AR mags and left it. Instead they retooled a lot of it, and he finds the changes to be downgrades instead of upgrades.
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:thumbup: My wording was a little obtuse. The original rifle is a true work of engineering art and an excellant rifle. If magazines were easier to obtain, I'd leave it alone. However, in the USA you really need to be compatible with M-16 magazines.

Sigarms USA did in fact take a wonderful state of the art rifle and degraded it for the our domestic market.

zenheretic said:
IMO it doesn't make sense to have a folding or collapsible stock on a rifle meant to have a scope and be real accurate. Sure such rifles can be "fairly" accurate. But IMO, a solid stock is the best option for accuracy. However someone with real sharpshootin' expericence like M1Marty would be better to listen to than me.
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There is a drastic difference in the sub-par folding and collapsible stocks like you find on cheap rifles and the good folders like I have used from Europe. It's sort of like comparing a domestic car to a similar European model. ;)

I really dislike the AR-15/M-16 collapsible stock too. I find the aftermarket stocks work much better then the cheap collapsibles found on your average "M4 Carbine".
 
The HK MR-223 (I think that's the German designation) is civilian knock off of the HK-416 that carries such a good reputation in combat. With the US ban on military barrel importation, HK has a pretty big financial hurdle to overcome. They will also need to be compliant with the domestic parts content if they want to sell an "assault rifle". For the numbers of rifles they will sell, this is a hard financial hurdle to overcome.

The SL-8 is a G-36 psuedo-clone. For a few thousand dollars you can cut and modify the SL-8 into a G-36 knock-off.

Both of these rifles are very good gas piston models.



When you speak with Police about thier rifles, you should always remember that they don't live with the same beauracratic rules civilians do. They get foreign made rifles that haven't been castrated if that's what they want.
 
both mine are colts and have been great rifles, i have also heard bushy's are good,
 
They will also need to be compliant with the domestic parts content if they want to sell an "assault rifle". For the numbers of rifles they will sell, this is a hard financial hurdle to overcome.
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I find that hard to believe considering they have a plant in the US and SIG and FN seem to have no problem doing the same. More like they'd rather just not put in the time or effort. I will give HK one thing, they now import their neutered rifles and carbines in black instead of that horrid grey color.
 
When it comes to AR15s. . . .loads of excellent gear on the market. My view. . . . .LMT is a sweet rig. The LaRue Tactical Stealth Sniper System. :eek: :thumbup: Gas piston. . . . . POF.


If any of you want to play Santa this year. . . . . . :D
 
beefangusbeef said:
I find that hard to believe considering they have a plant in the US and SIG and FN seem to have no problem doing the same. More like they'd rather just not put in the time or effort. I will give HK one thing, they now import their neutered rifles and carbines in black instead of that horrid grey color.
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The need the manufacturing CAPACITY and they would need to pay for the TOOLING to make the parts that are now made in Europe. Perhaps if they get their new plant built, they will be able to produce the parts needed.
 
You haven't heard HK's motto toward civilians??

We're HK---because you suck and we hate you.


Off the rack?? Colt

I would put my home builds against anything.
 
Patriot Ordnance Factory makes some sweet gas-piston rigs.

In general, my favorite AR-series platform I've ever shot and handled was a Sabre Defense Massad Ayoob 5.56 model. I shot it down on the Knob Creek Range and am still toying with the idea of putting one on order.

What a sweet piece! :D
 
Hey guys - thanks for all the suggestions. Any thoughts on the best way to buy??? I have a few favorite gun shops - best to go through them?
 
stevewest said:
Hey guys - thanks for all the suggestions. Any thoughts on the best way to buy??? I have a few favorite gun shops - best to go through them?
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Considering you are so late in the game (if you buy into the fears of Obama dropping the ban hammer) then you should do whatever legal avenue that will get you the results the fastest.
 
The Les Baer ARs are expensive as hell but have a good reputation among people with whom I've spoken.

DancesWithKnives
 
Mil-spec is mil-spec. I personally think Bushmaster is overrated. You can do the same with a DPMS, CMT, Stag, and all others. Don't get fooled by the brands.

Get the Sig-556 or something piston operated. The gas tube operated AR has been around for almost 50 years and it's good, but it's outdated and they've been polishing up that design to no end. The M4 bandwagon is so played out.
 
I thought I would update. I did not want to spend a bunch getting started - found a smith&wesson m&p ar15 for under a thousand. Last one they had without any prospects of getting more in. I wanted to start with a basic platform and start adding some extras. I read alot of reviews - it looks like it will be just what I need. Would like to get some better folding battle sights along with a scope or red dot system. May go ahead and change out the handgaurd. I will not be shooting competition - really wanted something to take out to the woods and punch paper. Am somewhat concerned about future availability which is why I first posed the question. Funny sign at the shop - picture of Obama standing on the capitol steps titled "Worlds greatest gun salesman!". Any suggestions on a good sight system?? Don't want to spend a ton, but... Anyway, thanks everybody for the suggestions, they were greatly appreciated - selection in my area is really limited - the only thing I saw besides the s&w was a colt for another 500 more. I would really like to look at some of the other brands mentioned.
 
BUIS (back-up iron sights)?

An ARMS40 paired with a 512 Eotech.

Your post used the plural form of "folding battle sights". Just do the rear. The front being a fold-down is irrelevant for a red dot and will require the changing out of the A2 Front Sight Base/Gas Block and replacing it with a Picatinny 1913 railed Gas Block ($35~$50 part) adding a flip front sight ($40) or a just gas block with an integral flip front sight ($95). Prices here are from parts houses (not S&W), and you'll have to add labor.

You could just buy the ARMS40 rear right now and save up for the Eotech. I like the 512 because it is the least expensive and uses AA batteries. The ARMS40L is not necessary for our uses, and the other Eotechs are amusing, but if you thought the 512 was expensive....

If your applications would be better suited for a scope, there are other answers. The broad expanse between a scope and using/needing a red dot speaks volumes.

You can shoot fair distances with accuracy using inexpensive "sport scopes" or the many out of service ar15 application scopes, some of foreign government surplus.

Maybe consider the red dot for now and look at the new clever add-on magnifiers that Eotech sells- or better yet- one of the less pricey competitors. It is a swing away mount for one of those inexpensive monoculars. Works like a champ.

This has been talked about without end, and very few see it before their third AR15 build, but you could have built that rifle, using the exact same source that S&W does for parts- on the extreme high side for $750, more like $650. It would not have had that S&W logo on it, though. Build what you want the first time through, it saves deciding what to do with that "old" handguard you just bought and removed.
 
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Mack - really appreciate the info - especially the last paragraph. I do plan on building my own in the near future - have a good friend that is into the ar15 platform and he recommended the same thing. His comment was that he did the same thing - started off with an off the shelf model and got a little experience and then started putting them together himself - he is up to 5 or 6. Again, thanks for the advise on the sights.
 
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