Are all 420HCs created equal?

Frotier76 said:
Disagree with that statement highly Frank.Two sitting ducks prone to roll the easiest by Buck in 420HC are the 113 Ranger-Skinner and the Vantage models in 420HC.Those two are deeply hollow ground with really fine edges that roll easily.The third was a Buck Quickfire that rolled on me while I was using it to strip the bark from logs for my wood stove that were sitting outside and the Quickfire has a thicker edge.I keep giving Buck a chance with their 420HC and I'm only satisfied with Schrade USA's results.Also Frank Buck Knives customer service when I've asked them about the steel they're saying 57-58rc in hardness.
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A: we don't disagree with Frank.
B: we definitely don't strongly disagree with Frank.


Edited to add: I have always liked and respected Bucks heat treat. It's awesome to see some testing put their blades are 59 Rc. I have always been impressed with my 301 and 303 knives!
 
Experiences vary.
Cutting chores vary
Edge angles vary.

For what I do with a knife (trim flash off plastic parts, cut cardboard, trim green vegetation, open blister packs) I find that any of my Buck 420HC blades will work with a 15° per side edge angle and not roll.

For somebody else's chores, they might find different results.

edited to add:
If I'm not posting as a mod, folks can disagree with my opinions all they want. I'm just another knife knut.
 
To answer your question Frank I try to keep consistent with the Edge 2X geometry because out of the box they have great cutting power.In cleaning medium game,fshing,yardwork,blister packs here as well...a good majority of the chores the 420HC holds up fine.When I get to heavy slicing or pull cuts that's where I notice the rolling where like I mentioned earlier from Buck...Schrade's 420HC just seemed harder or bared a stronger edge.

On that side note I'm here to talk knives and steel regardless if it's a civilized debate or light discussion with pertinent research information.And thank you for silencing someone for speaking in your place as you want to be one of the guys when it's not a moderator related post.
 
Frotier76 said:
To answer your question Frank I try to keep consistent with the Edge 2X geometry
...Schrade's 420HC just seemed harder or bared a stronger edge.
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Out of the box, Buck Edge 2000 edges are a tad thinner than 15° per side. Actually more like 12-13°.
Schrade edges were a LOT more obtuse, more like the traditional 22 1/2° per side.
So if you are maintaining the factory edge angles, the Buck is going to be a walloping load thinner than the Schrade at the edge. It would make perfect sense that the Schrade would be more robust on that basis.

I cheat and use a Sharpmaker these days. So my edges are either 15° or 20° per side. And all my edge angle comparisons are based on that.
 
Buck has stated their Edge2000 target as 13°-16° per side, i.e., 26°-32° inclusive. See their sharpening instructions, quoted in part below (I added the bold/underlined/color for emphasis), from the following Buck Knives' page:

http://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/knife-sharpening/

"Hold the Correct Grind Angle (Fig. 1, 1a) Ideally, you want to follow the same grind and edge angle (the bevel) as when the blade was new.
The angle on a Buck Knife is set based upon how we feel the knife will be used. Heavy use needs a strong and blunt "V" while skinning or filleting would need a deeper but more vulnerable "V". We tend to grind to 13-16 degrees per side (see illustrations). If you match the existing edge angle and hold the knife against the stone to cut evenly across the edge grind, you will produce an edge with a similar angle."
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Note also, they include some variable allowance for recommended angle, based on how the knife will be used.


David
 
As a recovering steel snob that knows a very minute amount about steels, or as my father says "enough to get yourself in trouble", I would say that, depending on what you are cutting with the knives, either one will serve you well. Maybe UK dealers are looking at the stereotypical Isles weather, and decided to not even waste their time with possible returns from CV blades. Or, maybe not. As the OP stated he will get both, I'd keep the Buck for work and a nicer handle cover Case, for "dress carry".

I got by just fine for years without super steels, heck, my favorite steel for folders is CPM154 and for fixed blades A2, and even then, I'm "stuck in the past" in regards to steels as a friend said. Most everyone in the USA would get by fine with 420HC and SS steels.

I have heard many laud the Schrade carbon steels, first I've heard about their + steel being top notch too. Good to hear.
 
BTW, I gave my brother in law a Buck trapper several years ago, he beats the heck out of it and uses it every day. Hunting, fishing, camping, at work etc (environmental research, he gets in the marsh sometimes), and it has held up well. He's also a big Buck fan, his father was a Buck fan before him. I believe it's 420HC, held up very well. Made in China but before Buck's Chinese manufacturer switched to 420J2.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Buck has stated their Edge2000 target as 13°-16° per side, i.e., 26°-32° inclusive. See their sharpening instructions, quoted in part below (I added the bold/underlined/color for emphasis), from the following Buck Knives' page:

http://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/knife-sharpening/



Note also, they include some variable allowance for recommended angle, based on how the knife will be used.


David
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True enough, David. But like I said, I base my comparisons on my Sharpmaker results. I've purchased about 8 Buck pocket knives since buying the Sharpmaker. All of the edges have been less than 15° degrees.

But even 15-16 is a lot more acute than the edge angles used by Schrade.
 
knarfeng said:
True enough, David. But like I said, I base my comparisons on my Sharpmaker results. I've purchased about 8 Buck pocket knives since buying the Sharpmaker. All of the edges have been less than 15° degrees.

But even 15-16 is a lot more acute than the edge angles used by Schrade.
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I'm also inclined to believe many of the Bucks will be on the low side of that spec, as the post-2000 Bucks I have, including a 301, and several 'factory buildout' 111s, are probably at/below 30° inclusive. I suspect they're just giving themselves a little leeway with the spec, for some knives that might be a little thicker. I also have a Buck Custom Shop fixed blade in D2, which might've been on the thicker side of that spec when new. But, it's not as thick anymore. ;)


David
 
Nursie You've got the full range of expertise on 420 by now, people are very interested in sharing their knowledge and experiences (the two can be different :D:D ) here.:thumbup:

I'm sure you'll find Trusharp more than acceptable for most usual pocket-knife tasks, it certainly strops very satisfyingly in my experience. I have a question about your Trapper, will it be full-size or the Mini-Trapper version? Mini is actually an inaccurate term as they are 3.5" shut anyway. This model also gives you the option of having the very useful Wharncliffe bladed version instead of the Spey. Hope your knife proves to be all you want.

Regards, Will
 
No they're not ! Bucks American produced 420hc is the best of it's kind that money can buy👍
 
Silent Hunter,
Look at the negativity behind the Plus Steel this way.You paid more for a rust resistant steel that didn't hold it's edge as long as the 1095 Carbon Steel and was slower sharpening.If you grew up on 1095 and use stainless for the first time...the differential hits you like a ton of bricks.So some people shunned the Plus Steel as inferior and moot to buy unless you wanted rust resistance solely and the cutting function.When I first dulled the heck out of a Plus Steel blade obviously it wasn't as good as the 1095 I was used to...but I thought the negativity surrounding it by other carbon steel fans was in the taste of a trashy tabloid magazine.
 
Will Power said:
Nursie You've got the full range of expertise on 420 by now, people are very interested in sharing their knowledge and experiences (the two can be different :D:D ) here.:thumbup:

I'm sure you'll find Trusharp more than acceptable for most usual pocket-knife tasks, it certainly strops very satisfyingly in my experience. I have a question about your Trapper, will it be full-size or the Mini-Trapper version? Mini is actually an inaccurate term as they are 3.5" shut anyway. This model also gives you the option of having the very useful Wharncliffe bladed version instead of the Spey. Hope your knife proves to be all you want.

Regards, Will
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Hi Will,
There are definitely some opinions on here
I'm hoping to get a Full sized Trapper in Yellow
Its the Spey blade that appeals to me, i love the one on my medium Stockman
thanks for everyone's help
Take care
Graham
 
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