Are any knives still made with IRON?

Macchina

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Looking through the old catalog scans you see a lot of knives with "Iron Bolsters". Did these knives actually have pure iron bolsters or where they cast iron or even steel and just labeled as "iron"? Is anything like this still made? Pictures would be awesome!
 
I believe they were wrought iron. Cast iron would be too brittle. Wrought iron was cheap. Labor was also cheap. Steel was expensive.

No manufacturers currently use wrought iron. An artisan might.
 
...some info from BRL about carving sets:


....

Bolsters were / are normally integral, although the English would typically forge weld a steel blade to a wrought iron bolster and tang -- steel was expensive, labor was cheap.
This one does appear to have a forge welded iron bolster, so it is English.

Cheap ersatz bolsters were separate: riveted mild steel, molded pewter, etc.

It is from the latter part of the 19th century, when mf'rs started saving labor by making the back face of the bolster over-sized and flat, so handles did not need to be precisely fitted to them.
Probably a few consumers noticed the change, but not enough to make a difference, or to be willing to pay extra for precise fit.

BRL...

...
That thumb print sized puddle weld on the back of an older Sheffield table or carving knife blade
was called the pile, and hence that side was the pile side.

The pile and everything back from it (including bolster and tang) were wrought iron (inexpensive and easily worked),
while the blade itself was steel (expensive).
I have a 1799 English patent for roll forging steel blade blanks, to which the iron would then be forge welded.

Here are some examples of "piles" (after meltdown):

Knife052.jpg


front_weldmark.jpg


BRL...
 
The Schatt & Morgan Heritage knives were made with Norway Iron.

I like wrought iron furniture on fixed blades. I think it's a good look with a carbon steel blade. This bowie has a wrought iron guard.

 
This is a knife that I picked up last year. It was one of the JS test pieces that earned Bob Wetten his title. He's a knife maker from Hershey, PA. The wrought iron guard on this knife is made from an old iron wagon wheel that he found in a swamp and dug out to use. He was told that the wheel was approx 150 years old. Blade is 5-1/4" 1084. Handle is dark curly maple with a nickel silver pin.

I was so happy with this knife that I ordered another in the same style with the same wrought iron guard, but on a smaller scale. It should be completed this spring sometime.

 
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I will be receiving this knife back from Tad Lynch tomorrow, with a new Koa handle, as the maple cracked:grumpy:, but the guard is wrought iron from an old wagon wheel that Tad found in the Ozarks,

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I will be receiving this knife back from Tad Lynch tomorrow, with a new Koa handle, as the maple cracked:grumpy:, but the guard is wrought iron from an old wagon wheel that Tad found in the Ozarks,

attachment.php

Is that a sunfish whittler?
 
We have had this discussion before and there were no firm conclusions. ;)

It really is hard to know when the transition was made from iron to steel. Judging by my observations of the cutlery industries in America, I would guess that the bolsters and liners were made of steel only when it became affordable or cost effective to do so - possibly late 1800's ? Production costs were always a major concern for cutlery manufacturers.

By the early 1900's, American cutleries were struggling with profit margins and went to Congress to ask for import tariffs.

Many of the old catalogs list iron bolsters, iron liners, and stag handles. I think they used the terms loosely. Clearly, many of the stag handled listings were in fact jigged bone. I suspect the same of iron and steel - most likely they used the term iron loosely.

We may never know - I reckon everyone has died that had the answers. :o

This is part of yet another simplified iron-steel article I have read. I expect it is fairly accurate:

Wrought iron

Cast iron assumes its finished shape the moment the liquid iron alloy cools down in the mold. Wrought iron is a very different material made by mixing liquid iron with some slag. The result is an iron alloy with a much lower carbon content. Wrought iron is softer than cast iron and much less tough, so you can heat it up to shape it relatively easily, and it's also much less prone to rusting. However, relatively little wrought iron is now produced commercially, since most of the objects originally produced from it are now made from steel, which is both cheaper and generally of more consistent quality. Wrought iron is what people used to use before they really mastered making steel in large quantities in the mid-19th century.

Types of steel

Strictly speaking, steel is just another type of iron alloy, but it has a much lower carbon content than cast and wrought iron and other metals are often added to give it extra properties. Steel is such an amazingly useful material that we tend to talk about it as though it were a metal in its own right—a kind of sleeker, more modern "son of iron" that's taken over the family firm! It's important to remember two things, however. First, steel is still essentially (and overwhelmingly) made from iron. Second, there are literally thousands of different types of steel, many of them precisely designed by materials scientists to perform a particular job under very exacting conditions. When we talk about "steel", we usually mean "steels"; broadly speaking, steels fall into four groups: carbon steels, alloy steels, tool steels, and stainless steels. These names can be confusing, because all alloy steels contain carbon (as do all other steels), all carbon steels are also alloys, and both tool steels and stainless steels are alloys too.

Carbon steels

The vast majority of steel produced each day (around 80–90 percent) is what we call carbon steel, though it contains only a tiny amount of carbon—sometimes much less than 1 percent. In other words, carbon steel is just basic, ordinary steel. Steels with about 1–2 percent carbon are called (not surprisingly) high-carbon steels and, like cast-iron, they tend to be hard and brittle; steels with less than 1 percent carbon are known as low-carbon steels and like wrought iron, are softer and easier to shape. A huge range of different everyday items are made carbon steels, from car bodies and warship hulls to steel cans and engine parts.

Iron or Steel ?

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Damascus and Koa Wood Bird and Trout Knife
Chris Montgomery - Maker
Damascus of 1084 and 15N20 in a twisted W's pattern.
Ferrule is wrought iron with a coined 416 spacer.
3 1/2" blade and 7 7/8” OAL.

se6geg.jpg


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After the Bessemer and Open Hearth processes were perfected in the 1860s-1880s, it was no longer necessary to use wrought or cast iron as a cost saving measure, because mild steel could be used just as cheaply. "Iron" could well have served as a marketing term after that, denoting those bolsters that weren't made using the "upmarket" nickel silver.
 
The OP might have had steel as opposed to Nickel silver liners and bolsters in mind ? If so the 38s me and Charlie had made were all steel and the TCs are also. GEC has had other all steel patterns before. I believe all or most of the Sunfish were.They are a sturdier knife.
 
The OP mentions that many of the " Old Catalogues " show Iron Bolsters . What years were those old catalogues ??? The reason that I am asking is that I would like to know when some of the manufactures stopped using Integral Bolsters .

Some nice info there Mr. Primble and the knife made by Chris Montgomery is really something as are the old Robeson and Turner !!!! Do either of those old ones have integral bolster ???

Harry
 
The OP mentions that many of the " Old Catalogues " show Iron Bolsters . What years were those old catalogues ??? The reason that I am asking is that I would like to know when some of the manufactures stopped using Integral Bolsters .

Some nice info there Mr. Primble and the knife made by Chris Montgomery is really something as are the old Robeson and Turner !!!! Do either of those old ones have integral bolster ???

Harry

Harry - thank you. I have catalogs from 1908, 1911, into the 1930's and they continued to refer to iron bolsters and liners. As far as integral bolsters, I know that Gardner made some integral bolstered Barlows in 1876 and thereafter. Charlie C. has a Gardner with the integral bolsters. The Gardner I have came a bit later I suspect and had iron bolsters and liners, however, not integral. There may have been a few other American companies using integral bolsters as late as the late eighteen hundreds, however, not many or any after that era, which I can think of. The early Sheffield Barlows used integral bolsters first and it continued on for a while, as immigrant cutlers came to the U.S.

Charlie or Mr. Jack would be more of an authority on the time frame of integral bolsters. ;)
 
The OP might have had steel as opposed to Nickel silver liners and bolsters in mind ? If so the 38s me and Charlie had made were all steel and the TCs are also. GEC has had other all steel patterns before. I believe all or most of the Sunfish were.They are a sturdier knife.

Agreed - the JBF Champlin Eureka Jacks of 2013 were all steel and made by GEC - I tend to like the all steel construction much better.
 
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