Are better made knives "better?"

[Tostig]

There are more expensive knives out there to be had, but past a certain point, there is a point of diminishing return. In the past there were people like the old mountain men, who survived out in the rocky mountain wilderness with a Green River skining knife by the John Russell company. This is basicly a glorified kitchen butcher knife. Thin carbon steel blade. Then there are all those machete's in central and south American, with blades no thicker than some butcher knifes. All except the Ontario are less than 1/8 inch thick at the spine, yet jungle people all along the Amazon are surviving just fine with low cost Tramontina machete's.

The simple truth is that this is a knife knut sight, so people here have for the most part, lost touch with the real world. So they have a Walter Mitty life going on intheir heads with fantacy senerios going on to justify the 400 dollar knife they think is going to be their own personal Excalliber.

The truth can be found by looking at our grandfathers. They lived through a great depression, life on the farm, and a harder working life than many here on this forum. Yet they did very well with a well worn old barlow knife in their pocket. If they went hunting, they had an old gray bladed 'huntin knife' that was a plain old carbon steel knife that cost less than a few bucks. If you want to buy a high end knife because you're a knife nut, fine. Some people go into hock for a Porshe, while others commute to work just fine in a Honda. A 19.95 Timex will tell you the same time as a Seiko, just without the snobbery.

I sent off my customs to be sold off many years ago. I used to carry an expensive custom for a woods knife, but was disappointed in it's performance. It didn't do anything that a lesser cost knife could do, and it was heavy. That Randall 14 was one hunk of knife. At least I got my money out of it when I sold it off. Now I just carry a sak in my pocket and a 12 inch Ontario machete in my day pack. Handles both ends of the spectrum.

As for the expensive knife? Well, If Cody Lundin and some of the other survival guru's swear by Mora's, that says a lot. An idiot with a high dollar knife is not likely to survive just because he has the magic name blade. Like you said, man was surviving for thousands of years with tools crude by todays standards. Yet mankind made it out of the stone and bronze age.

Carl.

Carl/ Jackknife , I've read your posts for the last 5 years , you share great stories. You are an asset to this forum.
I love the above post , especially the bolded parts. You put it into perfect perspective.

Tostig

 

[mat_890]

I would bet that less then 1% of Busse knives are actually used in the field and they don't make all that many knives to begin with. How could anyone really know if their better. Thats not an attack on Busse, I don't think anyone would deny there good knives but its still just a sharpened piece of steel.

 

[Myal]

I would bet that less then 1% of Busse knives are actually used in the field and they don't make all that many knives to begin with. How could anyone really know if their better. Thats not an attack on Busse, I don't think anyone would deny there good knives but its still just a sharpened piece of steel.

most knives are sharpened lumps of steel , unless its sharpened plastic or something
there is a hell of a lot of difference between sharpened pieces of steel tho , at times , a lot of know how and experience goes into that sharpening , and the heat treating .

I dont own a bussee , never have , dont intend to , not much about the knives do anything for me , from what I have see , coated blades , wide grinds , lumpy handles ... but thats me , they obviously do a lot for others who are apreciating something in them I am not

Bussee is doing quite well out of their sharpened pieces of steel

 

[Thalestin]

Lets face it, in a post apocalypse scenario, a knife is going to be the least of your concerns. Its a great tool, but lots of other things will be much more important to survival. Its more about the skills you have imo.

 

[Planterz]

Lets face it, in a post apocalypse scenario, a knife is going to be the least of your concerns. Its a great tool, but lots of other things will be much more important to survival. Its more about the skills you have imo.

I disagree. In fact, other than the ability to create fire, I believe the cutting tool (knife, axe, etc) is the singe most important invention of mankind. Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, etc...they're all about the quest for a better blade. Today's supersteels don't exist because of some whiny wankers on an internet forum who want their pocket knife to cut 600 pieces of manilla rope instead of 580 before going dull, they exist because such steels are used in industrial applications where a 1% increase of durability on a production line cutting sheets of cling film can mean millions of dollars a year. Mankind's greatest ability is the making and using of tools to provide and survive, and the blade is the most important tool we have. Be it to cut sheets of plastic for LCD screens for our cell phones and big screen TVs, or to kill and dress a deer, everyone alive needs blades in their life, whether they realize it or not.

If the (zombie) apocalypse comes, ammo will run out, clothes will wear out, gas will dry up, and all mankind will have left is fire, blades, and the knowledge on how to create and use them.

 

[TUF]

You could sharpen an old hacksaw blade and make the argument it is as good anything. You'd be right until you break it. Then I hope you have another one.

Busse knives are tough. I have no idea what percentage of them get used. Plenty of them do though. They have more than proven themselves.

Are they great knives? Not to me. But if I could only have a couple of blades for the rest of my life one of them would be one of my Busse knives. They are in reality not more than a piece of grader blade with a handle. Sometimes that is exactly what you need. When I want a knife I will use something that is capable of cutting.

I have boxes of old knives that were my fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers etc and they mean a lot to me. Most of them weren't even good knives when they were new. They didn't have any money and did with what they could afford.

I think it is safe to say they would have swapped for a knife made with modern steel in a heartbeat. Most of those stories about an old kitchen knife skinning thousands of animals are just that, stories.

Those old soft knives need to be sharpened frequently. If they were used and sharpened often they quickly wear away to nothing. As a young man I worked in a butcher shop owned by my great uncle. We used blades that were made from old saw blades from a saw mill. They worked great but even at my tender age it was evident that they didn't last long.

Better blades are better because they are better.

 

[jackman2]

I've broken several crappy knives, but I've never broken a nice one. In a true survival situation, it would be pretty tough going if you broke your knife.

 

[jackman2]

Most of those stories about an old kitchen knife skinning thousands of animals are just that, stories.

QUOTE]

My uncle is a taxidermist. He uses pretty crummy kitchen knives. And he has literally skinned thousands. Keep any knife sharp and it will work.

 

[goodeyesniper]

I'd even go so far as to say a Busse is WORSE than $30 worth of blades for true survival purposes. A Mora will work with wood much better, plus skinning/food prep, etc... + a tramontina to hack through lighter vegetation, or a hatchet/small axe if you are cutting through thicker limbs to survive. A busse can do all of those things, just slightly worse than all of them.

Busses fill a purpose that never existed, until busses came along and people made excuses for them I really like them, and they're obviously great quality, and wouldn't mind having one. But then again I have a dozen pocket knives, a few more fixed blades, etc... Not exactly a "need".

Knowledge, skill, and what you have on your person are far more important. I know people that could skin a deer with nothing but just a razor blade, in half the time I could with a decent skinner. Or could take a kitchen knife and do better wood working, or do fine tasks with a machete, etc... As long as you have something which will both get sharp, and stay sharp for a reasonable amount of time, you can probably do your task. Also as long as it doesn't break in half at first use helps too...

 

[elkpro1]

I think alot of it has to do with education . We grew up in the middle of nowhere killing and skinning ever known form of wildlife with the same pocket knife you used to clean your horses foot out or working on your pickup battery with etc. We dreamed of having the perfect knife for the job all the time . Instead we constantly sharpened on a crappy old Buck if you were a stainless man or an old timer if you werent . We dreamed of buying a custom or maybe a Gerber custom etc. We did not know about steel or heat treat at all . All you knew was there were legends like damascus or samaria swords, man we wanted something like that . What we have now makes life so easy like 1095 with a temper better than those legendary pieces really were or d2 or m4 or s90v or a2 with a perfect heat treat , man its great to just touch that green diamond sharpener a few times a day and do it all so easy with the modern excalliber . You cant tell me an old mountain person would not have traded alot of goods to trade up to a great forged piece by a real expert if he would have known better.

 

[foxx]

Sometimes better is all relative to the job. I used cheap Russel dexter knives in the culinary industry. When I switched to a Whustof, man, that was an upgrade. Just the comfort and accuracy made my job eaiser. The cheap knife still got it done, but I still have the Whustof, 10 yrs later.
I use some Ontario, Old Hickory knives as well. I like them, but they are soft. I have to touch them up all the time.
For me, I just want something that keeps and edge, has the correct geometry for the job, and has a good handle, no hot spots for example.
I don't get art pieces, I have one custom, it wasn't very expensive. It's just what I wanted. My $20 12" Ontario Machete is a funtional tool, but the ESEE Lite Machete is a better all day tool, better handle for sure.
Better is relative, and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, just work.

 

[Myal]

You could sharpen an old hacksaw blade and make the argument it is as good anything. You'd be right until you break it. Then I hope you have another one.

Busse knives are tough. I have no idea what percentage of them get used. Plenty of them do though. They have more than proven themselves.

Are they great knives? Not to me. But if I could only have a couple of blades for the rest of my life one of them would be one of my Busse knives. They are in reality not more than a piece of grader blade with a handle. Sometimes that is exactly what you need. When I want a knife I will use something that is capable of cutting.

I have boxes of old knives that were my fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers etc and they mean a lot to me. Most of them weren't even good knives when they were new. They didn't have any money and did with what they could afford.

I think it is safe to say they would have swapped for a knife made with modern steel in a heartbeat. Most of those stories about an old kitchen knife skinning thousands of animals are just that, stories.

Those old soft knives need to be sharpened frequently. If they were used and sharpened often they quickly wear away to nothing. As a young man I worked in a butcher shop owned by my great uncle. We used blades that were made from old saw blades from a saw mill. They worked great but even at my tender age it was evident that they didn't last long.

Better blades are better because they are better.

This is a sharpened hacksaw blade
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9413786&postcount=56

U feel ya pain about knives and butchering ... used to kill our own meat for 20+ years the lack of durable knives available got me into making them myself , I think tho I have taken to to some extremes that knives dont need to go to as far as durability ... but its dam nice to go there anyway

 

[cziv]

most knives are sharpened lumps of steel , unless its sharpened plastic or something
there is a hell of a lot of difference between sharpened pieces of steel tho , at times , a lot of know how and experience goes into that sharpening , and the heat treating .

I dont own a bussee , never have , dont intend to , not much about the knives do anything for me , from what I have see , coated blades , wide grinds , lumpy handles ... but thats me , they obviously do a lot for others who are apreciating something in them I am not

Bussee is doing quite well out of their sharpened pieces of steel

Yeah, now that he's actually sharpening them. My BWM wouldn't cut a slice of copy paper without tearing it up!

I sold it then Busee came out with a statement that they had knives that were shipping that weren't sharp. That was good of them to do it, but it cost me a bit of money. I won't be buying anymore of them.

 

[matt1987]

in a survival situation i'd say knowledge and the will to live comes before gear. a busse isn't going to magically keep you alive. you need to know how to make traps and prepare meat etc. and almost any knife can excel at that. batoning fire wood might be a different story, but you can get something cheaper like an esee still make it fine imo.

 

[OBJ Viking]

This was a good post.:thumbup:

First off , some of you are sharing great ideas and stories ,especially you Jackknife/

I like these discussions as long as they do not turn into macho spewing silliness.

Busse makes a fine blade I have no doubt , although I do not own one and really have no desire to since it's niche is already filled in my arsenal.


I think of times 'back in the day' when folks used what they had usually until they lost it or it broke. Extra items were a luxury.

This pic is an example. These three knives were my Grandpa Reynolds knives.

A Ka-Bar fixed blade knife that I assume was a butcher knife of some sort ( I rehandled it since the original scales were ready to fall off ). This Grandpa was a lumberjack and a farmer , he lived thru the depression in one of the poorest , hard hit states there was ,Arkansas. He used that Ka-Bar for everything from camping to fishing to farm chores , he used it when they went bear or deer or pig hunting to skin and butcher. I consider myself very lucky that I was the one out of all the grandkids to inherit it.
I would rather have this Ka-Bar than ten Busse's and I'm not joking in any way.
The top slipjoint was his edc pocketknife , a Keenkutter that also had it's scales in bad shape , so I replaced them with stag scales from a deer he shot well before most of us were even born. Notice how the blades are worn down considerably. I do not know how many decades he had this knife or the bottom knife which was his -Sunday go to meeting- knife. The man had three knives most of his life that he used for everything. The bottom knife was a present from his wife , my Grandma Etta.
That Ka-Bar is not made from anything fancy ( just good , old fashioned American carbon steel ) but it will do everything a modern knife will do regardless of new age steels and all that.

As I said , I was lucky enough to inherit all three and I will keep them for my kid if I have ever have one.

Tostig

 

[Gadgetaholic]

in a survival situation i'd say knowledge and the will to live comes before gear. a busse isn't going to magically keep you alive. you need to know how to make traps and prepare meat etc. and almost any knife can excel at that. batoning fire wood might be a different story, but you can get something cheaper like an esee still make it fine imo.

I paid $56 for a BK-2, that'll baton through some wood without any fear of it breaking. You definitely don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a Busse just to get a knife tough enough to baton or chop. Actually a <$10 Tramontina will probably handle chopping & batoning just fine too.

No knife that you need costs more than $50, but the knives you want - yep, some of them can be expensive.

 

[TUF]

Most of those stories about an old kitchen knife skinning thousands of animals are just that, stories.

QUOTE]

My uncle is a taxidermist. He uses pretty crummy kitchen knives. And he has literally skinned thousands. Keep any knife sharp and it will work.

Sure as long as the operative word here is knives not knife. You take one of those soft old kitchen knives and sharpen it everyday and see exactly how fast it goes away.

Most of those old knives that have survived did so for one reason. They weren't used very much. The ones that got used a lot didn't last very long.

The question that started this thread was "Are better knives better?"

The answer to that question is Yes.

 

[NI200]

Four Busse knives are better than one Fallkniven.

I can't disagree with this one, but I think it works both ways: four Fallkniven knives are better than one Busse:thumbup: