Are Custom Knives Bad Investments?

Joined
Nov 27, 1998
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I've been watching the "for sale" forums for quite a while now and it seems to me that, with a few rare exceptions, many of the hand made knives in mint condition are changing hands with a 30 to 50% loss to the seller. What gives? Why are these secondary market knives sinking so low while knives from Microtech, for example, are holding their value or even increasing? Is it because the customs are so readily available? I'm somewhat fickle in that I buy and sell a lot of knives. I love the custom stuff but I surely do not love loosing such a sizable sum every time I part with one. I can sell a HALO for what I paid for it any time, whereas my mint Elishewitz Specter depreciated $150 and still attracted little interest. Are customs a bad investment? I know that "it depends." This market is as trendy as women's clothing or beany babies but, none the less, there does seem to be a general downward spiral. I'm not worried about making a profit on my purchases, I just want to be able to avoid getting shafted every time I sell a beautifully made, minty fresh custom knife. Am I missing something here?

 
If I get a custom knife made it has a certain value because I had it made for me. Why would I expect another to see it with the same value. Production knives have a much broader customer base and they are made with a wider tolerance for acceptance so its no surprise you can easily find a buyer at close to or even at the sticker price.

-Cliff
 
Rick,

Cliff made a couple of vary valid points. Because of the cost of production knives, they do have a broader base for resale. Additionally, it is easy to buy these knives for 40% - 50% off retail price.

Can you make money buying and reselling custom knives, yes. I do it every day.

What I have found out about alot of knife buyers is that they are also involved other hobbies. Usually, this seems to be firearms.

Because, many of the custom knife owners are supporting two or more hobbies. They get into a "cash flow" problem. So what you see alot of on the internet are owners who need cash "now". The quicker you need the cash, the less of it you are going to get.

But as Cliff points out, what he thinks is the most incredible custom knife ever produced. May not be in the eyes of other potential buyers.

Also, most people because they are buying a "custom" knife. They will want to order a knife similar to yours, but with some "changes".

Fortunately for custom knife owners, buyers hate to wait. Consequently, if you have knives that are in demand and do not need the money "now". You can get your money back and on occasion a premium.

Also, the buyer has to be educated as to what they are buying. This goes to many of the threads on this forum. The knives to buy are the ones where the price is comensurate with the work. Too many buyers purchase a knife from a new maker charging a established makers price.

People hate to do homework. But this is what is necessary to make money on investments.

Rusty if your goal is to "invest" in custom knives. My advice is to not buy a knife for at least a year. Go to every major knife show in the country. Buy every book on knife making and collecting. Buy as many catalog's and brochures as you can from custom knife makers. Compare each that are in the catagory you want to collect. Then determine which are the best for the money.

At this point you will be ready to start buying knives from an investment point of view.

It took me about 5 years and $100,000.00 to get to the point where I kinda new what I was looking at. Entering my 13th year as a custom knife dealer, I can tell you that I am still doing my homework.

As for investing, put your money into the stock market, mutual funds, precious metals, 401K's, SEP's or IRA's.

For a great hobby that will bring you years of pleasure and if you do your "homework" will more than pay for itself.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
In my opinion it depends on what "custom" you have. If you own a custom that is readily available on the secondary market your chances are increased for a loss. If however you have a custom that is hard or imposible for someone to get, unless they get it from you...you will probably make money.

Ive purchased/traded/sold a few knives in the past 2 years. I made some on most that i sold to individuals, however, occasionaly i was forced to "quick sell" to a purveyor or individual and in turn, took a loss.

So anytime you have to move something "quick" you may have to take a loss. However, if you have a desirable custom and the time to market it, you will make money.

Some important factors to consider are Market trends, Individual desirability of the knife AND maker, your ability and desire to "market" your knife.

Custom knives are trickier to sell, as the pool of buyers is generally much smaller than that of the "production" market.

I guess it is obvious that as i was typing this, Les made his post. Sorry for the redundnace.

[This message has been edited by RMLamey (edited 27 April 1999).]
 
Thanks for all the feedback! I understand that having ones finger on the pulse of what's hot at a given moment is almost a necessity. I do try to do my homework. I should have differentiated between "custom" and "handmade." Even though the two terms have become almost synonymous, I was referring to the latter in my original question. As I said, I'm not interested in making a profit when I part with a knife. I just want to regain a little more of my original investment. Seems to me that it's like buying a new car: You drive it off the dealer's lot and Bam! 30% of the monetary value goes down the drain. I've tried dealer consignment, ebay, and the for sale forums all with pretty much the same results. I'm referring to some "Name" makers too: Osborne, Fujisaka, Hartsfield, Elishewitz, and Viele. Ah well, I guess that's just the nature of the beast. Secretly, I think a good handmade knife is actually worth the money but that's an opinion I'll only voice while hidden safely behind the faceless anonymity of a computer
wink.gif
 
Are new cars a good investment? The moment you drive it off the lot most instantly loose 10-20%.

Some cars, though capture the public's imagination. Several years ago, Chevy had a little fun by putting a Corvette engine into a little Chevy pickup truck. They called it the Syclone. They only made something like 500 of em. I seem to recall that one of the magazines, perhaps Car and Driver, got one as a year-long test car. For a year, every time they reviewed some super sports car, they did a side bar of "whatever vs. Syclone." I remember one that said, "two seconds off the line, the Ferrari was seeing nothing but tailgate." I had a friend who ordered one and drove it off the lot for sicker price. The moment he drove it off the lot, he could have sold it for a tidy 50% profit. The Halo is the Syclone of knives. There's just something about that knife that captures peoples imagination (and attention). Can I tell you what models will fall into that special category? No. Who'd have selected the Halo? It's really not a particularly attractive knife (hold your flames, please). It's just sort of dull grey with a bead-blasted blade. But, there's just something about it. Spurred by the Syclone, GM put that same engine into a GMC Jimmy and called it the Typhoon. The magic wasn't there.

Now, if you have, say, a 1956 Ford Thunderbird, in factory condition, less than a thousand original miles, etc., the thing is worth a fortune.

Even a car that's not in good condition may still be worth a lot if it's a rare model. The cover of this months Northwest Knives and Collectibles is graced by a knife that, even allowing for this month's printing problems, just doesn't look that great. The text reads, "Joseph Rodgers and Sons, Cutlers to Her Majesty, V. Crown R, c. 1860-70s, 17 1/4" Bowie Knife, 11 3/4" Saber ground spear point blade with quite a bit of original polish remaining, full and unsharpened." From the picture (and, again, they're not up to usual standards the month. Apparently some sort of printing problems.) I'd say that Mr. Claussen is being a bit generous in saying "quite a bit of original polish." He goes on to say, "Slab Stag handles with four pins." The picture looks like typical nice stag. So, how much? Answer: $9500!

Meanwhile, back on page six in the same catalog, languishes another fine Bowie, item #100, "Case XX, 1 Dot (Lightening bot SS) USA, 1836 c. 1989 14 1/4" Bowie Knive" I wont' bore you with the details except to say that it's rated as being in Mint condition, yours for $55.

Why the difference? A lot of factors. The first is in worst condition, but it's also over a hundered years old and a rare specimen. The second, while in mint condition, is just one of who knows how many tens of thousands of these things Case turned out ten years ago.

Notice that the first knife's rise to fame took a hundred years. The knives you buy today might make your great grandson rich. Very few knives to the sort of shooting star thing that the halo has lately.

The right knife can be an excellent investment. My Halos have certainly increased in value more than the mutual fund shares purchased at the same time. But, I'll bet my mutual fund collection outperforms my knife collection overall any day.

Buy knives because you're interrested in them, because you like them. If you happen to stumble into a shooting star, then lucky you. But don't count on it. If you're looking for an investment, try Invesco or Fidelity.

Chuck
 
Every custom (and non custom) knife I buy is purchased because I like the design and even if it isn't worth a cent to someone else, I bought it because I like it.

Some knives have appreciated in value, Mad Dog knives or Microtech oddballs seem to increase in value.

I don't think you can go into purchasing custom knives thinking of them as "investments". You need to buy them because you like them, not because you think that getting the one-off custom model will help your retirement!


--Doug
 
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