Are dealers substituting Sebenza 21's for the Classic?

Taonari

Taonari

Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
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I had ordered a Large Sebenza Classic with micarta inlays from a well reputable dealer. The package arrived today and inside was a box labeled Large Sebenza 21 with micarta inlays, not the Classic. The description on the dealer's site clearly says Classic and not 21 and the packing slip that came with the knife also clearly says Classic. I know that the 21 replaced the Classic and the Classic is no longer manufactured.

Will dealers sometimes replace Classics when they run out of stock with 21's? Is there usually a price difference? I originally wanted the large 21 with micarta, but ordered the Classic because it was all I could find in stock at the time the order was placed. I have called the dealer and left a message with them to call me back, asking if this substitution was a mistake on their end or intentional. I would be happy to keep the 21, but don't want to do so if the substitution wasn't their intention.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 
I think you need to hear from the dealer - we could engage in endless speculation, but that's all it would be. :) It's been 2008 since the Classic was discontinued, so any Classics that dealers still have are new old stock that hasn't managed to attract a buyer yet, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that knife. :) Most but not all dealers seem to have kept their posted prices on Classics equal to the price on 21s. Whatever else is true about pricing, the Classic and the 21 are equivalent if not exactly identical and paying more or less for one or the other from any given dealer is just going to be randomness.

As a guess, it's probably either an entirely innocent shipping error (if the dealer had both in stock) or a website updating goof (which I guess might annoy me a little, but only a little and only for a very little while). It could also be that the dealer ran out of 21s and shipped you an equivalent Classic to avoid what could be a very extended delay waiting for the 21 to come into stock, but in that case (at least if I were the dealer) a phone call or email to alert you to the situation and ask for your input (cancel order? wait for 21? ship the Classic instead?) would have been usual practice and courteous customer relations. I've never run into a bad or even unpleasant CRK dealer, so I'm very hesitant to leap to any conclusions.

If it were me? - I'd wait to hear from the dealer, but in any case the odds are high I'd be at least as happy, maybe happier, with the Classic than the 21. FWIW, YMMV, all that good stuff. C'mon, it's a Sebenza, it's new, it's yours - what's not to like??? :D :thumbup: :p
 
Thanks for the response. I had ordered the Classic, but received the 21 (which is what I wanted from the start but couldn't find in stock). The dealer's site shows their realtime inventory and when I placed my order on the Classic it decreased by 1 and it shows they have more in stock. I would rather keep the 21 though, if they are cool with that or pay the difference if any. I still haven't heard from them, but probably will tomorrow.

Is the Classic more desirable than the 21? I already have a plain Large Sebenza 21 and really like it.
 
Ps, I think the dealer need to update their site to stop any more confusion. 2008 till now I doubt you will find a Classic MM in stock at major dealers.
 
The Classic MM is just discontinued, it had some wording on the knife. Price would be the same new.

Discontinued pieces will always become more desirable as time goes on.
 
marthinus said:
Ps, I think the dealer need to update their site to stop any more confusion. 2008 till now I doubt you will find a Classic MM in stock at major dealers.
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Yeah I agree. I am starting to wonder if they just left the description the same when they ran out of Classics and started shipping 21's. Did Classics ever ship with S35VN blades? Oh and the birth card on the 21 I received is January 2, 2012. That's pretty cool.
 
Likely no price difference, though dealer practice seems to vary...

There is room to debate whether a Classic is more desirable than a 21, but only a few microns of room until you get into the zone of subjective preference. I like older better than newer, but that's just me. ;) The only real difference there would be if the 21 had an S35VN blade and you either DID or really DIDN'T want the new steel. The Classic never had an S35VN blade because it was transitioned to the 21 in 2008 and S35VN didn't start appearing until late 2011. My personal take on that is that at least for now, it's a total coin toss even as far as the steel goes. :thumbup:

Taonari said:
Thanks for the response. I had ordered the Classic, but received the 21 (which is what I wanted from the start but couldn't find in stock). The dealer's site shows their realtime inventory and when I placed my order on the Classic it decreased by 1 and it shows they have more in stock. I would rather keep the 21 though, if they are cool with that or pay the difference if any. I still haven't heard from them, but probably will tomorrow.

Is the Classic more desirable than the 21? I already have a plain Large Sebenza 21 and really like it.
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JNewell said:
Likely no price difference, though dealer practice seems to vary...

There is room to debate whether a Classic is more desirable than a 21, but only a few microns of room until you get into the zone of subjective preference. I like older better than newer, but that's just me. ;) The only real difference there would be if the 21 had an S35VN blade and you either DID or really DIDN'T want the new steel. The Classic never had an S35VN blade because it was transitioned to the 21 in 2008 and S35VN didn't start appearing until late 2011. My personal take on that is that at least for now, it's a total coin toss even as far as the steel goes. :thumbup:
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Ah, ok. The site description listed the Classic's blade steel as S35VN. I think the listing is a mish-mash of two different knives.
 
Ahh, got it from the background you sent, and I'm 99% sure you're right. I'd bet cash money that what you've run into is just a little careless copy/paste or similar compugoofing on the dealer's part. The dealer is a straight-up dealer and I'll guess that they'll at least be extremely apologetic and possibly make some more concrete gesture to treat you right. As long as you didn't have your heart set on S30V (which wasn't the case), I think you're fine, just a teeny bit worse for the wear. :) But look at the bright side, you got to meet new folks here in this subforum. ;)

Taonari said:
Ah, ok. The site description listed the Classic's blade steel as S35VN. I think the listing is a mish-mash of two different knives.
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JNewell said:
Ahh, got it from the background you sent, and I'm 99% sure you're right. I'd bet cash money that what you've run into is just a little careless copy/paste or similar compugoofing on the dealer's part. The dealer is a straight-up dealer and I'll guess that they'll at least be extremely apologetic and possibly make some more concrete gesture to treat you right. As long as you didn't have your heart set on S30V (which wasn't the case), I think you're fine, just a teeny bit worse for the wear. :) But look at the bright side, you got to meet new folks here in this subforum. ;)
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That is a great subforum. Glad to meet you. I've been lurking here for a little while and everyone is so helpful.
 
JNewell, thanks again for your help. Your PM storage is maxed out and I couldn't reply to your previous message.
 
I have noticed that a lot from CRK dealers when they state the knife as a "Classic Sebenza", but they show a 21 picture. ALL the dealers need to update their sites and put the proper terminology in their listings.........The best I can tell you it to educate yourself and to learn what the "Classic" & "21" look like and the subtle differences, so you don't run into thinking your getting a "Classic" when your actually going to get a "21".
 
nyefmaker said:
I have noticed that a lot from CRK dealers when they state the knife as a "Classic Sebenza", but they show a 21 picture. ALL the dealers need to update their sites and put the proper terminology in their listings.........The best I can tell you it to educate yourself and to learn what the "Classic" & "21" look like and the subtle differences, so you don't run into thinking your getting a "Classic" when your actually going to get a "21".
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Thans nyefmaker. Other than the chamfered area of the handle near the pivot, how can you tell the difference in the picture if you can't see the clip side of the handle? Are there certain finishes to the titanium that were exclusive to certain models?
 
Taonari said:
Thans nyefmaker. Other than the chamfered area of the handle near the pivot, how can you tell the difference in the picture if you can't see the clip side of the handle? Are there certain finishes to the titanium that were exclusive to certain models?
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I always look at the Chamfer on the edges, especially up near the blade pivot. Its the most tapered there and the real telltale sign of a "classic" or a "21". There is a little more chamfer on the "21" overall than the "Classic", but its not really noticeable unless you have a pic or the actual knives side by side. As far as finished go, they are pretty much just blasted or sanded to a satin finish in the CGG & Lisa's Picks. I just compared my large "eyes" 21 and my large regular " stars & stripes " and the satin finish is the same. The 21 though has much sharper lines over the much more rounded regular, but thats a completely different question that you did not even ask....lol.
 
nyefmaker said:
I always look at the Chamfer on the edges, especially up near the blade pivot. Its the most tapered there and the real telltale sign of a "classic" or a "21". There is a little more chamfer on the "21" overall than the "Classic", but its not really noticeable unless you have a pic or the actual knives side by side. As far as finished go, they are pretty much just blasted or sanded to a satin finish in the CGG & Lisa's Picks. I just compared my large "eyes" 21 and my large regular " stars & stripes " and the satin finish is the same. The 21 though has much sharper lines over the much more rounded regular, but thats a completely different question that you did not even ask....lol.
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Very cool. Thank you sir for the explanation.
 
Let us know what you hear? It's worth following up, if only so the dealer can realize that the website needs a little fixing. Hopefully everything works out well all the way around. :thumbup:
 
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