Are external-frame packs obsolete?

timichango said:
To my mind (and I might be off the mark with this set of assumptions, but...) external frames are superior when the external profile of the pack doesn't matter, and when maximum load carrying versatility is needed. Internals, on the other hand, seem better when you need either a trim and streamlined profile (mountaineering, navigating tight spaces where you don't want to get snagged, shedding large amounts of snow, etc.), and/or when you're getting into the ultralight realm, where you start minimizing pack structure (ie. trading full frames for simple framesheets with no other rigid stays) to save mass/weight.
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Mostly agree although it's worth noting that UL pack makers like Vargo and Zpacks are using external designs now.

Closely in line with this, even my Kelty Tioga is lighter than a comparable expedition sized internal frame. Simply less heavy fabric and padding involved and that really adds up.
 
pinnah said:
Couple of thoughts... First, big loads suck. They just totally, totally, totally suck. They wreck your knees and compress the discs in your back, which is a lousy surprise in your 50s. If there is any way to avoid big loads, do that first, imo.

Second, there are places where big loads can't be gotten rid of.... It's worth noting that the AMC hut crews tend to use old-style pack frames for carrying soul and spine crushing loads up and down from the huts in New Hampshire and for good reason.
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My wife and I having been sometime hikers (but NOT hut crew) on Mt. Washington, this is what Pinnah means about the hut crews' packs:

Coming....

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....and going.

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Not my photos, but I've seen this several times.
 
I can't remember if I won it at Scott's campout, or Scott gave it to me, but I have Scott Gossman's old alice frame pack, with frame. Never used it. I've been thinking about putting a little bit in there for local day hikes, instead of using a Nalgene water bottle holder. Just to build up tolerance, I'm obese with a broken back. Only things I carry are grocery bags and dogfood bags over my shoulder.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
I can't remember if I won it at Scott's campout, or Scott gave it to me, but I have Scott Gossman's old alice frame pack, with frame. Never used it. I've been thinking about putting a little bit in there for local day hikes, instead of using a Nalgene water bottle holder. Just to build up tolerance, I'm obese with a broken back. Only things I carry are grocery bags and dogfood bags over my shoulder.
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I don't think most/any of the guys who *had* to use the ALICE packs would have any kind words for them. I have one because "why not?" but having had a bit of exposure to the more modern military packs can definitely see why the old design was retired. If you don't have any $$$ invested in the pack, by all means give it a go, but don't expect it to be comfortable without some modification.

I just went on a long weekend backpacking trip in northern Minnesota, and used my Kelty Yukon 2900, which was once upon a time an REI rental that I bought at one of their "garage sale" events for next to nothing. The design shows its age in some respects, but I made the most of the external frame when I ran out of interior space and needed to go hog wild with bungee cords. Aside from lacking a dedicated hydration compartment and pass-through, it really does cover all my needs.
 
externals are alive and well...kifaru calls it a duplex frame for those needing to haul big loads.
 
Inazone said:
I don't think most/any of the guys who *had* to use the ALICE packs would have any kind words for them.
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ALICE, aka "the tick" because it bores into your back and won't let go. You feel it there long after you remove it. That ruck sucked.
 
Seek Outside external packs are the bomb, and just about every review I've read agrees.
 
Hated the ALICE pack with my Aid Bag perched on top. My old REI external and Northface internal were far superior to it.

Loved my REI external - I could lash a ridiculous amount of gear to it and it carried it well. I switched over to my Northface internal because my friends and I were doing a lot of rough country backpacking and the center of gravity of the internal pack didn't throw you off balance as much. Plus it was newer and cooler looking. Several years later as the trips became less strenuous I began to miss my external frame. I liked how I could lash my sleeping bag on the bottom and my tent on the top. Gave me all the interior space for other stuff, and setting up camp was was faster. When it came time to get my sons packs for Boy Scouts I got them Kelty internal frames.
 
For the last 15 yrs, I have been using a 82/64 Modified Ruck. Love it! Just the right size.

The only time I don't use it is for whitewater trips. Need a drybag for that.



 
I've also come to realize that a lot of packs won't fit big men. My chest is 52" around (under my arms) and my Kelty external frame is the only backpack that fits comfortably. I took my rei pack out and came home with bruises and the chest strap broke.
 
I really like my old Kelty for long loaded hikes on good trails that need no bending over or scrambling
Easy to pack and cool in the heat
And the packs still have external pockets!
Not for snowshoeing or skiing or scrambling
And NOT for air travel......
 
For camping and mountaineering then for me its all to do with weight. Modern materials and construction then there really isn't any excuse for much weight. The better internal system frames are superior in every way.
For some reason there is a trend to have excessive amount of padding that not only bulks out the pack but adds unnecessary weight. Its not needed. Same goes for partitioning and pockets. The simpler the pack the better, with a decent harness and belt system.

Now there are some exceptions.
Military packs require more robustness so heavier construction.
Difficult shaped and bulky items may need something different. An external carry frame might give the flexibility for this.

So generally I look for a light weight, simple design, well constructed. European manufacturers and designers are good on this. I specifically look at mountaineering and climbing packs as they have generally a minimalist build. Though the trend has gone for more feature. Feature rich I think aren't actually helpful, and a negative. Keep it simple and comfortable..
If you have a specialist carry load then maybe you do need a specialist carry system.

Just a note, I bought in some Eberlestock packs. The construction and quality was superb. A lot to like about them. Very well thought out designs. For me the weight before putting anything in was excessive. They will probably last for years, and fine for short distance work. Just not something I would want to carry huge distances or up steep inclines. For those who can handle the build weight empty then I wouldn't argue against their choice, just too much of a good thing for me. I kept a Mni Me and stripped drag bag, the rest I moved on.
I don't work in the American scene so I'm not sure how relevant my input is.
 
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Its funny, if you need a feature, then its worth everything to have it, and if you don't, well then its just a waste of weight and space. As long as that's true, we'll keep pack makers in business. I'd like to find a good light external to use as a load hauler for some of the things I do, but at the end of the day, there are a lot of factors that go into whats in vogue at any given time.
 
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