Are Folders Gravity Knives?

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Apr 23, 2009
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Need to know for compliance with NYS knife laws. Speaks of gravity knife as using gravity or centrifigal force to open. Really confusing baloney. :grumpy:
 
Unfortunately this is a common question on these boards.

New York law was badly written and basically makes all folders that lock open out to be gravity knives. To make matters worse, the police often "test" knives by gripping the blade and swinging the handle open, and the courts thus far have upheld this.

Slipjoint knives (like Swiss Army Knives) apparently avoid this because they don't technically "lock" open. They just resist closure slightly. It is also my understanding that certain folders with highly unconventional mechanisms that prevent opening by inertia also skirt this law even if they do lock.

I think many kind of multi-tool are also legal in that they would fail the "flip" test due to the design.
 
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A non-locking folder like the Spyderco UKPK will avoid classification as a gravity knife under this distorted definition.

I do not know how much trouble New York STATE will make over it but New York CITY is bad news for knife knuts.
 
Okay, thanks for the help. ;)

I figure since I have no problem buying these in NYS, that I'm willing to carry on Long Island. NYC, fuggetaboutit. It's a real Soviet Union kinda place :cool:
 
I'm just curious- would a typical folding knife that locks still be considered a gravity knife by NYC LEO's if it cannot be flicked open by the usual tests (i.e. holding the blade, handle)? Thanks.
 
Nassau and Suffolk on LI have several former NYC officers in their ranks, so becareful there too. It is a state law being enforced by the NYPD, so the same law applies all over the state, but it is enforced to the extreme in NYC. My son's 17 year old friend had a locking folder taken off him in Levittown ( Nassau County) as the officer flicked it open and said it was a gravity knife(only reason he was not arrested was the PBA card I gave him to aviod traffic tickets)....
 
Tom19176, you mentioned in a previous thread that when in NYC you keep your locking folders tightened to the point where they can't be flicked open. Are there any folders other than the Kershaw 2420 with which you have had success doing this?

Or would you warn against even this and say only go with slips?
 
Of course slips are the safest way to go. If the knife is totally non weapon in blade style under 4" and has a tight blade, and you say it is not for use as a weapon, then you should be Ok, but you will always run the risk of a officer who feels he can demonstrate it is some how a dangerous knife by design or modification. I was pleasantly surprised the last few weeks in talking to several officers from Downtown Brooklyn who were posted in one of the malls I manage, that all of them felt a knife in and of itself was not a cause for a arrest. As stated before, I am a former NYC LEO, so I always seek out the present day feelings of the officers of today, and I always stress that in my day you would not dare to bring in someone to the house on a simple knife charge( I always hope this helps them to think correctly about weapons laws)....
 
I have a follow up on this same subject line that I'd been wondering about. I have a handful of folders with unusual opening mechanism that cannot be "flicked" but are still one-handed openers.

One is the now-discontinued CRKT Rollock, which slips up the back and has to be pushed into the locked position. Stupid design in many ways, but it works with practice. And the scales are sparkly silver:barf:.

The second is a Smith & Wesson so-called "OTF Assisted Opener." (Yeah...I wouldn't buy that either if I were a cop) The thing is downright dangerous to open, so I took the spring out. Now it's like an old school gentleman's slider, basically opens like a disposable utility knife. The track is very tight and there is no way to open it with gravity or inertia, and it can be open and closed with one hand.

Both are under 3 inches. Would these pass as legal in NY?
 
What type of blade does the OTF use? If it's double-edged the cops may claim it is an illegal dagger/dirk.
 
What type of blade does the OTF use? If it's double-edged the cops may claim it is an illegal dagger/dirk.

Nope, just single edged.

Here is a photo:
SW-OTF-AO.jpg
 
Personally, I wouldn't want to carry a knife like that as it looks like a weapon. The blade is coated black and is shaped like a cruciform dagger even if it isn't double-edged.

Edit: Does anyone know if Mcusta knives can be tightented to the point where they can't be flicked open? I sent an e-mail to them asking if they had pivot screws and they replied saying that all of their knives came equipped with them. I was wondering if anyone was able to tighten them to the point where they still opened smoothly via the thumbstud but could not be flicked.
 
I have several friends that are current and retired NYPD and they all concur when it comes to carrying knives in NYC;if it can be flicked open in ANY way,you are a collar. I stopped carrying an old Spyderco Delica because of this advice. The old timers on the job probably are less likely to arrest you just for carrying a knife,but one friend who works in Transit bureau in Manhattan said if he sees a clip on your pocket and feels you're carrying a knife,you will be stopped and frisked. The reason for the dramatic change over the last few years,as I know has been mentioned previously in other threads,is post-9/11 anti-terror/crime sentiment. All these officers told me the orders coming from the top demand enforcement of this law to reduce violent crime on NYC streets and subways. If you choose to carry a knife in NYC keep it concealed,make sure it can't be flipped open in any way. I would avoid any knife that needs to have pins tightened to avoid being flicked open because screws do loosen over time. I personally avoid any locking knife. A swiss army knife, a multitool is all I will carry in NYC. Why am I carrying it? If an Officer questioned me I'd tell him the truth,"I use it during my day to open mail,cut open cardboard boxes,fix things that need screwdrivers,trim my nails,open a beer bottle that doesn't twist off,open a soup can for lunch,trim off nose hair with the scissors,saw off a piece of an old broom handle to use to even out an uneven tableleg etc etc etc...and I'm an old boyscout so I like being prepared"
 
When you say "flicked", does that mean opening the knife without using a thumb stud or other such device (just centrifugal force) or does it mean opening the knife with one hand and using the wrist "flick" to lock it open? I don't know if I'm being clear...

Jordan
 
When you say "flicked", does that mean opening the knife without using a thumb stud or other such device (just centrifugal force) or does it mean opening the knife with one hand and using the wrist "flick" to lock it open? I don't know if I'm being clear...

Jordan

Flicked in any way, shape or form. This includes thumb studs, opening holes/ovals, or flippers.

It really is a stupid law. :barf:
 
It's been my experience with LEOs in NYC (or anywhere else for that matter), that as long as I don't look or act like a wannabe tough guy or gangster they pretty much leave me to my business. I know things have tightened up since 9/11, but I've gotta think that if I'm cooperative, and respectful they'll realize that I'm one of the "good" guys. I've even been more than fairly treated when I was younger and got caught doing stupid things.

Now, I'm not saying you can get away with an obvious weapon, but are they really going to nit-pick an Axis Lock on an average Joe? Obviously things vary by circumstance - say at a concert, sporting event, bar, etc. I'm curious to hear what any current or past NYC LEOs think.

Jordan
 
I understand where you are coming from, Jordan, but there are some cops who are going to take someone in for having a flickable knife whether they appear to be an otherwise upstanding citizen or not.

Check out this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/nyregion/18about.html?_r=1

Some cops in NYC are willing to arrest people for taking photos on the subway--which is LEGAL. If the law enforcement environment in NYC is such that cops are arresting people for offenses that are actually legal out of fear that they could be a terrorist, then doing something that exists in a legal gray area, like carrying a flickable knife seems ot be a very bad idea. Depending on the situation, merely acting like a respectful upstanding citizen is not going to be enough.
 
You can bet your paycheck plus that you will be arrested for a knife that flicks open in NYC. As for who may or may not be arrested, the latest one I know of was a 55 year old white man, who wears a tie and long sleve shirt, and had an exposed pocket clip when he entered the LIRR station at Atlantic and Flatbush in Brooklyn. He had no prior record, but he has one now....as stated above, any weapons arrest is considered a good one and that becomes more of a true fact if there has been a spike in the number of robbies in that area as it is considered a good response to combat the robberies....
 
as stated above, any weapons arrest is considered a good one and that becomes more of a true fact if there has been a spike in the number of robbies in that area as it is considered a good response to combat the robberies....

The fact that stabbing homicides are up 50% over the last year is going to make police officers all the more zealous about going after people with knives.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/nyregion/28knives.html

I am quite glad I found this forum and thought to ask about knife legality before purchasing a blade. Now when I need to take a utility blade with me I grab an SAK or opinel. If I hadn't known about the law I probably would have purchased a Benchmade or Spyderco and risked getting arrested.
 
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