-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Are G10 handles waterproof?
- Thread starter ml1209
- Start date
I'm sorry if that was a bit brief - time limited.
Micarta is also waterproof. But it is vulnerable to petroleum products. So if you dropped a Micarta handled knife say in a combination of marine fuel and salt water, on a boat, the result could be disastrous.
Other materials, like metals, have their own vices.
In plain usage terms, G10 has more going for it overall I think, than any other.
Micarta is also waterproof. But it is vulnerable to petroleum products. So if you dropped a Micarta handled knife say in a combination of marine fuel and salt water, on a boat, the result could be disastrous.
Other materials, like metals, have their own vices.
In plain usage terms, G10 has more going for it overall I think, than any other.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
I have soaked Micarta in gas for short periods of time, 15 minutes and lit it, as well as poured gas directly on it and lit it on fire. It does nothing significant besides make the handle warm.
-Cliff
-Cliff
That's interesting Cliff. I'm hardly going to argue with you on this sort of thing either.
Lawyers are cautious incidentally - that word "could" didn't appear for no reason.
More importantly, I'm not sure what to think now. I mean the theory is as I indicated originally, as I'm sure you know. Also, Strider for example makes a point of this - not using Micarta for that reason. Doesn't seem to worry Bob Dozier as much though...
Well as I say, I can't pretend to know, past a certain point. I simply haven't engaged in testing on this score myself.
Lawyers are cautious incidentally - that word "could" didn't appear for no reason.
More importantly, I'm not sure what to think now. I mean the theory is as I indicated originally, as I'm sure you know. Also, Strider for example makes a point of this - not using Micarta for that reason. Doesn't seem to worry Bob Dozier as much though...
Well as I say, I can't pretend to know, past a certain point. I simply haven't engaged in testing on this score myself.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Yes, McClung argued for the same reason for his G10. However it doesn't act like it in reality. I have done similar tests on several handles. Maybe if you soaked it for hours or days it would be different. However similar long salt water soaks broke the bonds on McClungs grip due to rusting of the tang which could also be a problem with ATS-34 class materials. In any case after 15 minutes or so the gas can't even penetrate the Micarta beyond the surface and will actually dry off before you can light it if you wait beyond the immediate.
-Cliff
-Cliff
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
The soaking was done as I recall as part of a military test and extended exposure to corrosive enviroments caused seperation of the grips from the tang. The exact specifics were difficult to nail down as this was discussed on Knifeforums when McClung used to moderate and he would readily lock and delete threads/posts when the discussion did not favor his knives.
I have however seen the basic action first hand on his knives. I left a piece of one of the shattered TUSKs I had wet overnight and the corrosion readily penetrated the chrome coating, corroded the underlying metal and subsequently removed the coating. I have seen this behavior time and time again with other coatings.
Evidence of similar failures I have also seen with other knives, Cold Steel for example. You can also read about this problem on the forum, extensive rusting of the tang under the Kraton which will eventually lead to the destruction of the handle.
Most of the top end manufactures who make similar enclosed handles take precautions to insure that total failure can never happen as even if the bond to the tang is broken, there is a shape lock or pin that will act as a failsafe. This feature of the Busse Basics vs McClungs knives was discussed on the forums here awhile ago when Turber cut the handles off of a Basic #7 and an ATAK.
However while this issue is a concern, it doesn't strike me as the critial one. Usage of a carbon steel knife in that kind of an enviroment would be much more problematic in regards to actually keeping a functional edge on the knife due to blunting by corrosion. In addition McClungs knives have far more severe limitations due to ductility and impact toughness.
-Cliff
I have however seen the basic action first hand on his knives. I left a piece of one of the shattered TUSKs I had wet overnight and the corrosion readily penetrated the chrome coating, corroded the underlying metal and subsequently removed the coating. I have seen this behavior time and time again with other coatings.
Evidence of similar failures I have also seen with other knives, Cold Steel for example. You can also read about this problem on the forum, extensive rusting of the tang under the Kraton which will eventually lead to the destruction of the handle.
Most of the top end manufactures who make similar enclosed handles take precautions to insure that total failure can never happen as even if the bond to the tang is broken, there is a shape lock or pin that will act as a failsafe. This feature of the Busse Basics vs McClungs knives was discussed on the forums here awhile ago when Turber cut the handles off of a Basic #7 and an ATAK.
However while this issue is a concern, it doesn't strike me as the critial one. Usage of a carbon steel knife in that kind of an enviroment would be much more problematic in regards to actually keeping a functional edge on the knife due to blunting by corrosion. In addition McClungs knives have far more severe limitations due to ductility and impact toughness.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 2,395
Sorry Cliff, can you provide a reference to documentation for said "military test"?
If you are speaking of the Hawaiian SEAL evaluation where the Mad Dog ATAK won the competition, I am afraid you are mistaken. No Mad Dog handle came loose in any immersion test in that competition.
Now, if you are just passing along a rumor, the source of which you possibly don't even remember, perhaps it would be more honest to categorize it as such than to represent it as a fact.
If you are speaking of the Hawaiian SEAL evaluation where the Mad Dog ATAK won the competition, I am afraid you are mistaken. No Mad Dog handle came loose in any immersion test in that competition.
Now, if you are just passing along a rumor, the source of which you possibly don't even remember, perhaps it would be more honest to categorize it as such than to represent it as a fact.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
As noted, all references to the testing were deleted by McClung, as was any other similar information on a regular basis which presented his knives in a less than positive light. The information was not a rumor but presented in a open and factual manner which McClung would not debate but simply delete as he did on numerous occasions.
The underlying failure can also be easily understood as I have observed the basic mechanics first hands on his knives, and they don't have the basic failsafes that others have such as shape locks on the tangs. The basic problem has also been described with other knives on this forum, and McClung has no inherent "magical" abilties which free his knives of this concern.
-Cliff
The underlying failure can also be easily understood as I have observed the basic mechanics first hands on his knives, and they don't have the basic failsafes that others have such as shape locks on the tangs. The basic problem has also been described with other knives on this forum, and McClung has no inherent "magical" abilties which free his knives of this concern.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 2,395
Completely false.
If what you are saying is that Mad Dog knives are no more susceptible to handles rusting off than any other, then you have finally said something factual.
Now back to how Mad Dog silenced the SEAL team that started the rumor about his handles rusting off...that was a good one. I can't wait to hear how he did that.
Fair go Steve.
- Cliff did not state at any point that McClung destroyed "all the evidence", as you put it. Or "silenced" a SEAL team. To suggest that he even implied as much is an unsustainable leap in logic. Cliff was simply outlining his recall of threads and/or posts which he alleges were subsequently deleted. It might be 'handy', but it is not wholly incumbent on him to ferret out magazine articles (assuming there were any), other published results, first hand witnesses and so on, before saying a word on the subject. Not in this instance.
- WHY do you assert that the relevant passage is "completely false"? If you are concerned as you seem to be, about Cliff making assertions without a sufficient basis for them, some more detail from you would be in order, don't you think?
- Cliff did not state at any point that McClung destroyed "all the evidence", as you put it. Or "silenced" a SEAL team. To suggest that he even implied as much is an unsustainable leap in logic. Cliff was simply outlining his recall of threads and/or posts which he alleges were subsequently deleted. It might be 'handy', but it is not wholly incumbent on him to ferret out magazine articles (assuming there were any), other published results, first hand witnesses and so on, before saying a word on the subject. Not in this instance.
- WHY do you assert that the relevant passage is "completely false"? If you are concerned as you seem to be, about Cliff making assertions without a sufficient basis for them, some more detail from you would be in order, don't you think?
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
switched :
Sure I did, just read this again :
Now I know what you are thinking, doesn't this just refer to the discussion on Knifeforums as clarified in the previous statement :
No, it doesn't. You see after McClung's frenzied deletes on the forums didn't stop the flow of negative information on his knives, with his electric rifle that he invented at the age of six, he went out to "silence" his critics with the training he recieved as a CIA assassin. Now since he was technically on the run for his life from Columbian Drug Lords at the time, he was of course risking his own like in doing so - but a man's got to do what a man's got to do. [you can read this details in his biography - soon to be a made for tv movie staring "Screech" from "Saved by the Bell", I will be played by Chewbacca] .
After silencing all the military and those in the magazine industry McClung went after all of those who dared question the word of the Dogfather. It soon became obvious to me that I was next in line. At the time Busse offered to let me hide out. Being of considerable girth he reasoned I could just stand in his shadow and be invisible, but when I commented that were were of similar size he noted then I was screwed because even a blind man could see him a mile away through heavy fog.
With my future obviously nonexistant, I asked Busse (being such good friends at the time not have actually met for another few months yet - but lets not let logic enter into a discussion about McClungs knives), if he would clear up some unanswered emails and posts. However at the time Lynn Thompson had stepped up to the Busse challenge and Jerry was not looking forward to having the Trailmaster whip the Battle Mistress at the next Blade show. He thus offered to stand in for me - a noble sacrafice.
So yes I am Jerry Busse, but not in the way that the rumor was started. I am real, Jerry Busse is the fake having been "silenced" by McClung some years ago. [some say by the way that it is in fact his body that is responsible for the sightings in Lock Ness]
Rev. Pete :
Those types of materials are far more heat resistant. In order to damage them to any degree you would be looking at substances (acids and such) that are likely to do severe damage to the steel.
Steve :
No, as I stated his tangs lack the secondary retention systems that other have, clearly illustrated by the tang comparison Turber produced when he showed the ATAK and the Basic. Ref :
http://www.bladeforums.com/images/mad-busse-handle.jpg
The Basic's curved tang acts as a secondary retention system, while you could for example just pull straight out on the ATAK and free it once the bond was broken - no deformation of the handle material would be necesary. The Basic also has a pin through the grip which would also have th be torn through the material. Note as well the much more serious concerns such as the two heavy stress risors on the ATAK where the tang is formed, two square notches compared to the heavy radius used on the Basic. This is a far more serious problem than the handle rusting off, but this issue gets completly ignored because you can't argue with this at all as it is a basic principle of mechanical engineering.
Of course according to McClung this ATAK that Mike Turber tested wasn't a real one as the there is a hidden notch in the tang that he carves to mark his "reject" blades (why doesn't he just destroy them - DON'T QUESTION HIM HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING). This "reject" was obviously stolen from his shop and someone used it to perfectly copy one of his knives . The hidden notch by the way was also found on several other knives as members did have theirs x-rayed to check thim. It was later revealed that a simple side on x-ray was not enough for McClung had planned ahead and the actual notch could only be revealed if the blade was on an exact angle [yes this is actually his explanation you can see it in old posts - his commentary on why his knives performed so poorly got progressively more weird, Cougar had some really amusing posts in the older threads]
This conspirisy against McClung may have been caused by the relatives of those members of military and press that he "silenced". Before you post to this thread and even question the world of McClung, I have only one thing to say - "Do you feel lucky? Well do ya' - punk" . You could be next. You are taking your life in your hands, and
[CONNECTION BROKEN]
Sure I did, just read this again :
Now I know what you are thinking, doesn't this just refer to the discussion on Knifeforums as clarified in the previous statement :
No, it doesn't. You see after McClung's frenzied deletes on the forums didn't stop the flow of negative information on his knives, with his electric rifle that he invented at the age of six, he went out to "silence" his critics with the training he recieved as a CIA assassin. Now since he was technically on the run for his life from Columbian Drug Lords at the time, he was of course risking his own like in doing so - but a man's got to do what a man's got to do. [you can read this details in his biography - soon to be a made for tv movie staring "Screech" from "Saved by the Bell", I will be played by Chewbacca] .
After silencing all the military and those in the magazine industry McClung went after all of those who dared question the word of the Dogfather. It soon became obvious to me that I was next in line. At the time Busse offered to let me hide out. Being of considerable girth he reasoned I could just stand in his shadow and be invisible, but when I commented that were were of similar size he noted then I was screwed because even a blind man could see him a mile away through heavy fog.
With my future obviously nonexistant, I asked Busse (being such good friends at the time not have actually met for another few months yet - but lets not let logic enter into a discussion about McClungs knives), if he would clear up some unanswered emails and posts. However at the time Lynn Thompson had stepped up to the Busse challenge and Jerry was not looking forward to having the Trailmaster whip the Battle Mistress at the next Blade show. He thus offered to stand in for me - a noble sacrafice.
So yes I am Jerry Busse, but not in the way that the rumor was started. I am real, Jerry Busse is the fake having been "silenced" by McClung some years ago. [some say by the way that it is in fact his body that is responsible for the sightings in Lock Ness]
Rev. Pete :
Those types of materials are far more heat resistant. In order to damage them to any degree you would be looking at substances (acids and such) that are likely to do severe damage to the steel.
Steve :
No, as I stated his tangs lack the secondary retention systems that other have, clearly illustrated by the tang comparison Turber produced when he showed the ATAK and the Basic. Ref :
http://www.bladeforums.com/images/mad-busse-handle.jpg
The Basic's curved tang acts as a secondary retention system, while you could for example just pull straight out on the ATAK and free it once the bond was broken - no deformation of the handle material would be necesary. The Basic also has a pin through the grip which would also have th be torn through the material. Note as well the much more serious concerns such as the two heavy stress risors on the ATAK where the tang is formed, two square notches compared to the heavy radius used on the Basic. This is a far more serious problem than the handle rusting off, but this issue gets completly ignored because you can't argue with this at all as it is a basic principle of mechanical engineering.
Of course according to McClung this ATAK that Mike Turber tested wasn't a real one as the there is a hidden notch in the tang that he carves to mark his "reject" blades (why doesn't he just destroy them - DON'T QUESTION HIM HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING). This "reject" was obviously stolen from his shop and someone used it to perfectly copy one of his knives . The hidden notch by the way was also found on several other knives as members did have theirs x-rayed to check thim. It was later revealed that a simple side on x-ray was not enough for McClung had planned ahead and the actual notch could only be revealed if the blade was on an exact angle [yes this is actually his explanation you can see it in old posts - his commentary on why his knives performed so poorly got progressively more weird, Cougar had some really amusing posts in the older threads]
This conspirisy against McClung may have been caused by the relatives of those members of military and press that he "silenced". Before you post to this thread and even question the world of McClung, I have only one thing to say - "Do you feel lucky? Well do ya' - punk" . You could be next. You are taking your life in your hands, and
[CONNECTION BROKEN]