Are Modern Knives Forged Or Stamped?

Uath

Uath

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Oct 25, 2003
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I've got several TOPS knives. They are very tough 1095 steel, but I was wondering.

Are modern knives like TOPS, Ontario, Becker, Cold Steel, and others forged?
I know they're stamped out of sheets of metal, but are those sheets forged? I'm talking about all kinds of Carbon Steeled, black coated knives. You know the type.

I know forged steel is stronger, because the molecules are alligned by the forging process.
 
If by "forged" you mean "beat with hammers", no. Sheets are rolled.
 
From what I remember, they are also heat treated as blanks THEN ground to final bevels so as to minimise any wastage from warpage.
 
as mentioned most factory production is not forged, this does'nt mean low quality. low quality can be present in forged & stamped blades. forging is alive & going strong after a huge revival starting in the 70s. forging does generally mean it is made by a custom maker.----dennis
 
Depends on the knife. Knives like TOPS are made from sheet or bar stock. The outline is cut with a lazer, saw, water jet, plasma cutter, or whatever convenient method the maker/manufacturer wants to use. The sheets/bars are hot worked, though it is not called forging. As mentioned above, the bars/sheets are rolled, which involves heating to a similar temperature as forging, then passing the steel between rollers. This is more uniform and controllable than hand hammering. You could say that knives made from sheet/bar are pre-forged from the steel mill, though the actual term is hot rolled. Even the CPM steels get this treatment.


Some knives, like a few Cold Steel models, the above mentioned kitchen knives, and a few others, are forged, though not like most people think. When done by a manufacturer, it does not typically involve a guy standing over an anvil with a hammer and a forge nearby. The knife may start as round rod, or maybe bar stock. It is heated, then forged by placing it in a power hammer with a knife shaped die on the bottom and hitting it on top with a similar shaped die. This results in a knife that will still need to go through various grinding/polishing steps. This type of forging is way beyond what can be done with a hand hammer. The knife can be shaped from round rod in as few as 2 or even 1 stroke of the power hammer.
 
Also there's no scientifically-based evidence that suggests that forging as better than stamping. Both methods are advantageous in different ways from a manufacturing standpoint, depending on the good being produced.
 
It's just that, for my whole knife-loving life, I've heard that forging allows the molecules of the steel to line up and this produces a superior product.

It's funny I seem to be moving backward in time:

1) I left stainless steel behind, now only carbon will do.
2) I'm about to leave stamped behind, now only forged will do...I even want hammer marks.
3) Forget screws welded on to the tang and pommels screwed-on. From now on, I want a peened-over tang, or a full-profile tang with scales. Nothing else will do.

I think I'm going from the 21st century back to the seventh Century. I feel more at home there anyway.
 
If that's your preference, then by all means! We all have our niche. :cool::thumbup:
 
Uath said:
It's just that, for my whole knife-loving life, I've heard that forging allows the molecules of the steel to line up and this produces a superior product.
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There is some truth to this, but it comes from a time when steel was made using charcoal and ore and burned in the side of a hill.

If the maker of your forged knife started with his own iron ore or iron bearing sand, then yes, his forged blades will be better than if they were not forged.

If the maker starts with modern bar stock and forges it to shape, then it will not be noticably better than if it were just ground out, all other factors being equal.

Forging does not line up molecules of steel. There are other advantages to forging. The biggest reason I can think of is it allows the smith to use steel that doesn't start in a convenient form for blade making. Another is frugality of blade material. Depending on your equipment, it can be quicker to make large blades by forging than by grinding. I'm sure there are others I can't think of.

There is no need to feel you are moving backward. Forging is still used to make many modern items, some quite advanced. It's just not done using a smith, a couple helpers, a hammer and an anvil.
 
It also depends how does one define forging. Many production knives receive single blow from hammer or press, giving it a shape, and they are sold as forged knives. Kindda far from what you'd imagine when describing a forged knife ;)
 
forging does not improve modern steel, proper heating and cooling cycles do
steel is not made of molecules, the atoms are held together by metallic bonds, not covalent.
 
interesting camps but forged blades by fowler ,burke & carter have few peers. we also need to counter with non anvil makers as ferhman, busse & sniper bladeworks. a champion is available for all tastes.--dennis
 
Gator97 said:
It also depends how does one define forging. Many production knives receive single blow from hammer or press, giving it a shape, and they are sold as forged knives. Kindda far from what you'd imagine when describing a forged knife ;)
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Yea, this is a stamped blade,not forged.Forging compresses the steel molecules,resulting in a denser steel.End result tougher,with better edge holding ability.Im not a blacksmith,and I dont forge blades,but this is my understanding as a toolmaker.Blanking blades now days in a die is old school.Laser cutting is the way to go
 
septer said:
Forging compresses the steel molecules,resulting in a denser steel.
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I'm going to look like a smart a$$, but this is simply not true.

Many production knives receive single blow from hammer or press, giving it a shape, and they are sold as forged knives.
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If the piece that is struck starts as round or flat bar and comes out after one stroke as a knife blade, then these are indeed forged, though indeed it's not what most people envision when they think of forging. If that single stroke works like a cookie cutter, then they are stamped.

interesting camps but forged blades by fowler ,burke & carter have few peers.
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Agreed, however many of the benefits attributed to forging can be achieved with just careful heat control, and no mechanical deformation. Specifically an ultrafine grain size and very small carbide sizes.
 
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I read an article on forging vs stock removal once. It claimed that certain steels are better when forged, ie 5160 and 51200.
I do have a forged chopper in 5160, and compared to my Ontario RD4, well, the chopper is truly amazing. The RD4 doesn't hold an edge well, and it chipped on me cutting through a golfball. The Chopper came sharp, and has not rolled or chipped at all, after some hard chopping, on several occassions. Yet, the same steel in the RD4 isn't tough or hard?
 
foxx said:
I read an article on forging vs stock removal once. It claimed that certain steels are better when forged, ie 5160 and 51200.
I do have a forged chopper in 5160, and compared to my Ontario RD4, well, the chopper is truly amazing. The RD4 doesn't hold an edge well, and it chipped on me cutting through a golfball. The Chopper came sharp, and has not rolled or chipped at all, after some hard chopping, on several occassions. Yet, the same steel in the RD4 isn't tough or hard?
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I've read reprints of articles that say austenite has a body centered cubic crystal structure and is a closely packed structure. That doesn't mean they're true. Mostly, I'd say you're comparing a carefully made handmade knife with a mass produced blade of the same steel.

I want to say, I have nothing against forged knives, stamped knives, laser cut and machined knives, cast knives or any other method of making knives. However, I do have some issues with the myths that surround forged blades.
 
although me2 is'nt exactly correct concerning precision thermal treating as opposed to precision forging, he's close. and he's 100% correct about the fallacy of molecular compression in steel.--dennis
 
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