Are other manufacturers paying attention to the success of BHQ’s M4 knives?

[mycough]

Since benchmade is a dealer here, I can post the link. Here you go!

http://www.benchmade.com/customizer.html

Has a neat 3D modeler and you can completely customize the knife, from hardware to steel to blade shape to liner coating options, scale colors, etc. It is actually a really neat service that they offer (but it is still pretty pricey)

I stand happily corrected, I could go for an M4 grip.

Russ

 

[darth_cholo]

I love M4 but after getting some insight into the kind of dumb issues/questions custom makers have to deal with on $500+ knives sold to presumably knowledgeable enthusiasts, I am completely unsurprised that larger production companies are less interested in dealing with non-stainless steels even if they can sell out 500 pieces of them quickly.

For example, just check Amazon reviews for non-stainless cookware (cast iron or carbon steel) and you can get the idea of how your average person deals with something that can rust. There's an expectation that it totally won't, and if it does then it is junk.

When you're selling a knife that costs over $100, should companies expect their customers to be a bit more knowledgeable than your average Amazon customer buying a carbon steel wok? Yeah, maybe they should. But they probably don't feel like bothering when they can use S35VN and avoid the issue entirely.

This is so true. I have cast iron cookware that only I use in the house. I just can't trust the rest of my family with it's care (i would find it in the sink soaking in water or being used with super high heat because it takes too long to heat) . For them i would never have them use carbon steel or cast iron. I buy them non-stick regular cookware that gets replaced every couple of years. My cast iron though is lifetime use as such it should be.

 

[darth_cholo]

If I'm honest, I personally really like natural G10. However, I'm not a fan of CPM-M4 which has stopped me from purchasing any of them.

is it M4 specifically or non-stainless in general that isn't your cup of tea?

 

[bikerector]

I stand happily corrected, I could go for an M4 grip.

Russ

There was a forumite who did an M4 mini and it was fantastic. You certainly pay a bit extra for the customizer but you can certainly get something a little more unique by doing so. I really want a sheeps version in M4 to replace my mini I CPM154 but the cost factor gets me every time. I keep thinking a black clip side and orange pocket side scale would look neat. I get the orange for the flare but the black for a discrete in the pocket look and a steel that holds a fine edge for a long time.

I'm also kind of waiting to see what other models end up in the customizer over time.

 

[Gideons]

is it M4 specifically or non-stainless in general that isn't your cup of tea?

non-stainless in general

 

[aquaman67]

• non-stainless in general

  
  That’s correct.
• What some people do is force a patina.
  
  Some use mustard and make interesting patterns.
• 

Once it has a patina on it (which is basically rust) the steel will be more protected. And it will change over time.

You either like patina or you don’t.

 

[Mo2]

Spyderco has sent out info pages with my knives. About the steel and in some cases how to care for it. Including if you should oil the blades. Sadly not everyone reads this or follows through or understands. Used market doesn't always sell with original box and care instructions.

And some folks don't like patinas ,forced or not. Forced patina can help but it's still able to rust and pit.

I really don't care, i seek out different steel to learn from research and use. I oil my high carbon steel so they won't rust... But if they did anyways I'd just fix it and keep using it.

 

[Popsickle]

Jade aka translucent aka natural g10 imho is ugly.
Knifeworks did M4 first iirc Cf+M4. Better combo.
In any case bladehq on social media is larger than most companies.

I love my CF M4 PM2

I wish BM would hop on the M4 train.........

They are, slowly but surely. It needs to be a custom option for every knife offered in the custom creator.

The Natural G10 is a great colour and I"m happy to see it more often. I don't have them all but I have a few.

As a note Benchmade just did this.

Great to see them using M4, but this model is far too polarizing to make a huge splash. I see them trying to piggy back of BHQs success with Spyderco.

Benchmade has a few models which have m4 as an option. You can pick up a grip or a barrage in m4 using their customizer. It's a bit expensive though

I wish the crooked river offered M4

I dont believe this is the case at all.

Russ

You are correct, not all can be created with M4 in he custom shop

It absolutely is. I've got an M4 custom barrage in my pocket right now.

I love m4

 

[Popsickle]

I've got a skinning knife in M4 steel. The steel, itself, generally holds a great edge. But, the smallest amount of blood causes significant corrosion to the steel. Since the corrosion happens all over the blade, it is also happening at the blade's apex, which dulls the blade. If blood causes corrosion in M4, then no doubt other slightly acidic materials will, as well, such as fruits and some vegetables.

A high resistance to mechanical abrasion is great, but a blade quickly going dull due to chemical corrosion still leads to a bad cutter, and thus poor chemical resistance is not a good property in a knife steel.

If use of the M4 blade was restricted to certain environments, then the steel is fine, but who wants a knife that can only be used in limited materials?

JMHO

M4 is not restricted to certain environments. Proper care is needed. I seem to remember reading an article about deer skinning and it put M4, and all other popular super steels against it.... M4 skinned more deer by a long shot. I believe S90V came in 2nd. M4 is simply the best all a rounder if you can handle the lack of corrosion resistance

That’s correct.

What some people do is force a patina.

Some use mustard and make interesting patterns.

Spyderco M4 Steel - View on Imgur: https://m.imgur.com/gallery/9aWAwTy

Once it has a patina on it (which is basically rust) the steel will be more protected. And it will change over time.

You either like patina or you don’t.

Forcing a patina is simply the best way to go. Get a nice patina, and oil afterwards simply to protect the edge. I bartend for a living and used to carry a Gayle Bradley 1 in a high volume night club(lots of sweat). I never saw an ounce of corrosion after I forced he patina and simply wiped it down after work.

 

[Popsickle]

Spyderco has sent out info pages with my knives. About the steel and in some cases how to care for it. Including if you should oil the blades. Sadly not everyone reads this or follows through or understands. Used market doesn't always sell with original box and care instructions.

And some folks don't like patinas ,forced or not. Forced patina can help but it's still able to rust and pit.

I really don't care, i seek out different steel to learn from research and use. I oil my high carbon steel so they won't rust... But if they did anyways I'd just fix it and keep using it.

I had rust on the spine of my M4 pm2 the other night and admittedly was worried. It wiped off with frog lube and a rag. No pitting, simply gone

 

[shinbone]

Here's a close-up photo of the M4 blade after field dressing an elk, as mentioned in my previous post #10. This corrosion became apparent before I was even halfway through the job:



All I am doing is reported on my own personal experience. Maybe others have had better corrosion resistance under similar circumstances. And, I think the level of acceptable corrosion resistance is going to depend on user-tolerance combined with typical applications, as well as how much effort the user wants to spend protecting the blade. For me, a knife that corrodes this much from cutting up one animal is not acceptable. And, I am not going to spend time cleaning and re-oiling the blade while I still got more of the animal to cut up. I understand someone else could be perfectly happy with M4's corrosion resistance after cutting up a bunch of cardboard boxes.

YMMV and JMHO

 

[Danke42]

What type and brand of knife is it?

What's their heat treat protocol?

 

[abbazaba]

I love M4, it is probably my favorite user steel. The new DLC BHQ options are fun too. INot a fan of natural G10, so I've blade swapped most of them. Personally, I'd like to see ZT use it in more sprints.

ZT0562 M4!

 

[shinbone]

I won't provide the maker's name, since this blade was given to me for testing purposes. The maker is a well-known, highly respected blade smith. Don't know the heat treat process.

 

[Danke42]

I won't provide the maker's name, since this blade was given to me for testing purposes. The maker is a well-known, highly respected blade smith. Don't know the heat treat process.

Wow, a mystery!

Such fun!

 

[trevitrace]

I've used two of my m4 blades, Big Chris and Phil Wilson, to field dress and butcher two whitetails and didn't experience corrosion anything like the above blade. Granted both already had a natural and healthy patina on them, but no rust developed afterwards.

 

[brancron]

If manufacturers started doing M4 (uncoated please) and natural Micarta, I would be very, very interested! I just can't get behind natural G10. But natural Micarta is my favorite.

 

[evilgreg]

If manufacturers started doing M4 (uncoated please) and natural Micarta, I would be very, very interested! I just can't get behind natural G10. But natural Micarta is my favorite.

Those are pretty. I don't get motivated much by high-end steels, but I do like micarta a bunch.

This dealer exclusive Buck Vantage is a recent micarta must-have for me:

 

[shinbone]

After sharpening, there's no patina on the bevel, which of course is where the cutting takes place.

Not saying everyone's M4 is going to corrode like mine did. But my experience for my use was really bad. It'd be great for cutting cardboard all day long, though.

BTW, that Loreno in Post #37 looks sweet!

 

[brancron]

Those are pretty. I don't get motivated much by high-end steels, but I do like micarta a bunch.

This dealer exclusive Buck Vantage is a recent micarta must-have for me....

That's a beautiful knife! The only issues I have are the following: (1) I wish it were the smaller sub-3" version (just a personal preference); and (2) more importantly, the fact that SK Knives will not honor returns for blade centering ("blade centering not considered a defect") is an issue for me. This is only because I've handled many a Buck Vantage in brick-and-mortar stores, and the quality (and blade centering) vary widely. I'd just be disappointed to be stuck with a badly miscentered version.

Regarding high-end steels, I'm not too motivated by that either (give me some 440C and I'm happy), but I must admit I do love how my M4 knives have been performing. This Mantra 2 (the best Mantra) was reground by Josh from Razor Edge Knives to make it quite thin behind the edge, and it just keeps cutting and cutting: