Are Part Time Makers Forgotten?

L

long_deep_wide

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Dec 28, 2003
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I sold a few knives to knifeart.com a few months back. It was kinda like forcing them to make a deal. When I first started to attend knife shows, Knifeart really lifted my spirits by buying my knives. They (Larry Connelly) encouraged me and gave me a lot of advice. I liked working with them and I thought that hand made knives would be a special part of the American knife culture. The last time I talked to Knifeart.com in person, they told me that my style of old fashoned damascus and maple knives were not what they wanted to get into, as a matter of fact they had trouble selling ABS knives (forged), and had a mastersmith knife not sell for a year. Since I'm just a part time maker should I give up trying to sell my knives to knife resale folks? Are buyers just wanting art or jewell encrusted fantasy crap? Do people that buy knives now just wanting all show and no go? I dont mean to gripe (much)!but are hardworking knives and hardworking people a dying breed?
 
Just upgrade your membership here to "Knifemaker", and start selling in the makers for sale area. There's lot's of people here who still enjoy good using knives.
 
long_deep_wide said:
I sold a few knives to knifeart.com a few months back. It was kinda like forcing them to make a deal. When I first started to attend knife shows, Knifeart really lifted my spirits by buying my knives. They (Larry Connelly) encouraged me and gave me a lot of advice. I liked working with them and I thought that hand made knives would be a special part of the American knife culture. The last time I talked to Knifeart.com in person, they told me that my style of old fashoned damascus and maple knives were not what they wanted to get into, as a matter of fact they had trouble selling ABS knives (forged), and had a mastersmith knife not sell for a year. Since I'm just a part time maker should I give up trying to sell my knives to knife resale folks? Are buyers just wanting art or jewell encrusted fantasy crap? Do people that buy knives now just wanting all show and no go? I dont mean to gripe (much)!but are hardworking knives and hardworking people a dying breed?
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I don't understand why knifemakers don't use their real names on forums.
Larry's correct IMO, as the ABS style knives (wood handle, plain guard, usually carbon steel) of 3-5 years ago are slow sellers today. That can be noticed on the exchange here and most dealer sites.

I don't know about the "art or jewell encrusted fantasy crap" you speak of, however many collectors do want more exotic handle materials, perhaps engraving and more creative designs. Perhaps you need to provide what buyers are willing to pay for.

And as far as "all show and no go", I will put any of my ABS "MS" showpieces against your knives in performance test anytime even though I don't know who you are.

And as far as "hardworking people and hardworking knives being a dying breed". I work very hard everyday but as with most of modern society, there's not much use these days for a hardworking knife in most people's professions or everyday life. I suggest you stop "Gripping" and get with the times or stop trying to sell knives.
 
Dealers have to ride the market waves and try to stay on top of what the buyers are buying. If they aren't buying your style of knife then it doesn't make any sense for a dealer to invest in your product. Solutions can be to find more markets for your product or change your knives to suit current trends. Finding a dealer that can give you tips on what they are looking for can be a nice boon. Many are willing to tell makers what they are looking for. Then it is up to the maker to deliver or not. Remember running a business is just that. A business. Unsold inventory is money wasted.
 
crap knives to me are the ones you would not use to skin a deer, do general cutting chores or bet your life on. To me these knives do have a place, (on a wall or in a rich persons toy collection). My name is Eric Barnes and I run Dangerous Curves Forge in Mountain View, Ar. I will bet my life on the knives I hand forge here in my small blacksmith shop. I've been working with steel all my life and have been a tool and die maker for 20+ years, Ive sold a few knives and by no means consider myself a masterbladesmith, But I have forged steel side by side with some of the best, mastersmiths included. What I have concluded from what I have read and what I have experienced in real life is that people like to pay for is the fantasy of owning the so called best. There are really great bladesmiths out there who can more than equall so called master standards, but choose not to kiss anyones ass. You may have never heard of me or care, but those of us that work 40+ hours a week and can still get out in the smithy to make knives are the people that matter to me , not arm chair bloggers.
 
Sorry to be so hard on you in my previous post, however it seems you are attempting to blame everything because your knives are not selling. There are many part time makers who have long waiting list. Seek advise rather than place blame.
 
I think Phillip offered some good advice.

I have noticed that the Knifeart crew are offering fewer forged blades these days - but other dealers are offering more and more.

In terms of realising success as a maker, producing a quality knife is the comparatively easy part of the equation. There are many out there who can help with the hard part - the business and marketing side of things.

Roger

PS - Nothing wrong with turning out "using" knives, but I question the wisdom of casting disparaging remarks about "crap" knives that might be displayed on a wall or sit in a "rich person's" collection. Keep in mind that even the most avid outdoorsman only needs so many knives. Well cared for, they will outlast the user. Once that buyer has 2, maybe 3 or 4 knives he simply doesn't need any more. Ever. Collectors do not face such limitations in their purchase motivation. They just keep on buying. Something for you to think about, perhaps.
 
Some people start a thread with their mind made up, and others start one wanting advice. I feel you fall in the former category. With your stated background, you should be able to find a way to be successful without the help of one dealer.

- Joe
 
Kevin Jones said:
Sorry to be so hard on you in my previous post, however it seems you are attempting to blame everything because your knives are not selling. There are many part time makers who have long waiting list. Seek advise rather than place blame.
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After your last post, I take the above back. I was not hard enough.
You have a very narrow view of custom knives for a maker of such.
 
well I was a little hurt by the sudden reversal of some of the advice I was taking from knifeart, Im not blaming them by no means, they just go where the money is at. Im gonna post a few knives in the comming up weeks- Please let me know what you think, and where I might improve. All comments good and bad would be appreciated. I was hoping the knife community hasnt forgotten the old school way of making knives. I can see now its alive and well , Thanks Eric Barnes Dangerous Curves Forge
 
Eric, I have seen some of your blades online and they look quite good. You can make the best knife in the world and if no one knows about it you won't be selling them. This is why ad men make such big money.
I have noticed here (the forums) and in the retail world it seems this year has not been a big year for sellers. I have seen great knives not sell even at bargain prices. If I had the cash I would have stolen several smokin' deals.
My thought about you, as a part time maker, is that you should make what YOU like, treat it as a hobby, and sell to friends and at local gun and knife shows. Your reputation and clientele will grow this way. I assume your living expenses are not dependant on knife sales? Marketing can really take the fun out of a pleasurable hobby.
The economy is such that a hard working guy might settle for a Kabar to do his skinning. That will not always be the case. Kevin
 
your right on the narrow view--I have had the honor of being around and working with the finest bladesmiths around. Their work is all top notch and I can no way approach their high quality of work. It just seems to me that the focus on the forged blade has been redirected. When I began making knives I made my knives to impress one maker (jim Crowell) I wanted to approach his fine craftsmanship and elegant lines. Im not really wanting to sell more knives but to put the focus back on where it needs to be IMO. Anyway I cant make a lot of knives and work full time-
 
You really can't base market trends on one dealer. He has a group of customers, and another dealer has a different group. I have a knife on Larry's site that has sat for WAY too long. I have another dealer who usually sells my bowies before he even receives them, or at least within a week or two.

Dealers are one facet for makers to market their work. Some are more inclined to be able to move certain knives as opposed to others. For a long time, Knifeart was THE ABS dealer. Seems he carried knives from every MS at one time or another. Now his site is loaded with folders.

As others here said, making a quality knife is not the only ingredient to a successful business. The fact is, the person who wants a "hard use, depend on it with my life" type of knife is really not who is shopping most of these sites anyway. From my experience, those customers are ones you meet at a hunting camp or through another network, and only buy one or two knives a year at the most. Maybe your marketing approach is aiming at the wrong target.

It seems you have a chip on your shoulder over the whole Mastersmith thing. I know the majority of the MS holders, and have never seen one of the boast about it or use it as a means to demean those who don't have the stamp. The ABS has it's issues like any other group, but the predominant attitude is one of helping your fellow smith and educating the public. So weather you are a member, supporter or whatever, if you are selling forged knives, YOU HAVE benefited from the efforts of the ABS. I am not saying you need to pay homage, but please don't diminish it's members. Most of us aren't ass kissers.

As for working a 40+hr week....I average about 60 hrs in the shop a week.
 
mabey that was too strong of a word, and as for chip on shoulder, I have had a lot of fun being at abs events and I admire Jerry Fisk and most of its members to no end . Having said that, there are bad apples who spoil it for some. Sometimes being close to the problem will cause bad feelings. The whole of the ABS is not the problem. I just choose not to have to play the political end in my part of Arkansas. I would love to rejoin the ABS in the future but for now Ill treat my knifemaking as a hobby and try to enjoy it as much as i can. Sorry If I offended anyone.
 
Ya just gotta spread your stuff around. Hit up other dealers. As many as you can find. Most would love to give any reputable maker a try. Get on the computer and start emailing as many dealers as you think you can handle. If one site is suffering trend issues, move onto the next. Then back again and on and on.

You gotta kinda stick and move in order to stay afloat, at least from my experience.

If you don't have your own site, get one. It's a must! People will see your stuff whenever they do a search for the type of knives you offer. It will bring in tons of questions and more business than you may currently have without one.

If you can get your stuff overseas, even better. From Europe to Japan, there are tons of collectors and users willing to buy something new. You confidence in your work is a good selling point. Make it known, advertise your confidence.

There are a million and one trends in the knife world. Some come and go, others stick around for a while. No biggie. just keep workin.
 
No Problem, I have had bad dealing with members of the ABS and Guild, and have to admit that when the organizations were brought it, I had hard feelings too. Took a while to realize the organizations were brought in to be the bad guy and didn't have a way out without making a bad situation worse.

I will say this though. I haven't found the ABS to be political unless that is what you want to be involved in. ANY organization is political in nature. They have to have someone to run it, and that is the foundation of the political process. So, that being said, let me be the first here to extend a hand and invite you back. Hope we can meet at one of the shows or events and have a good time.
 
Eric, you have belittled collectors, ABS makers, a highly regarded dealer and insinuated that people don't work hard, that maker's knives are just for show, that art knives are crap in this thread. That's really a shame as most collectors and makers here (including myself) will do anything in our power to help and advise new makers.
 
Eric, as a part time maker myself my experiences have been somewhat different than yours. I had made knives for about 2 years before i had a dealer buy any knives from me. I was somewhat hurt at the time because i took a hit on the dealer discount. But i had friends explain to me about the advantages of haveing a dealer advertise for you. On the plus side that particular dealer gave me honest critiques of my knives and told me what i could do to improve my work. I have sought out makers as well as collectors alike to get input on my knives and i feel that it has improved my ability and skills immensely. This has paid off for me with just 3 years of makeing knives i actually have a waiting list which helps allot to pay the bills of the knife shop. I didn't get there by sitting back and waiting for things to get better on there own. I sought help and input from anyone that would give it to me. Now sometimes i let that input go in one ear and out the other if it doesn't fit the style of knife i wanna make but i still listen. In my experience the "pretty" knives are just as good if not better than the useing knives because the makers that have the ability to build such knives have honed their skills to the point that anything they make is good.
 
Hi Eric,

Some dealers chase the trends...others start them.

What have you done to introduce your work to other dealers? I buy and sell more than my fair share of forged blades. I even write about the makers who make them for both Blade and Knives Illustrated. I can't remember ever receiving an email from you with a photo one of your knives or a phone call.

Ok, forget dealers. What are YOU doing to market your knives?

If your knives aren't selling it is your fault.

If your knives are selling it is your fault.

The majority of forged knives currently sold are in the $300 to $1,000 range.

I looked up a post from last year and you were selling your knives below that.
Perhaps your knives are a bargain...perhaps they are priced correctly.

Check out the January and February 2008 issues of Blade Magazine. Read the article titled "The Business of Custom Knives".

It might give you a little insight as to what you need to do. I specially wrote the article for makers who are having difficulty figuring out prices, which dealers to work with and how to market/sell your knives.

Eric, whether it is good, bad or indifferent...everything you do in your business is up to you.

WWG
 
I didnt mean to belittle any one, I speak only from my personal experience.. If you would feel better venting on my opinion feel free to call me 8702692130opinions are like assholes everyone has one. iT SEEMS THAT I HAVE STRUCK A NERVE WITH YOU , I was not meaning any harm to anyone. IMO art knives are just that. Im not looking to sell knives, Im just wondering why the market has changed since my last knife deal. I like knives that people make by fire hammer and anvil, its that simple. That is the way it started in the beginning---i think, now that you have taken what I said and went your own way with it proves my point about assholes.
 
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