Are people more afraid of a Gun or a Knife?

Reactions to guns and knives depends a lot on context. If you enter a friends house and find a gun or knife sitting on the table a gun is likeliest to raise anxiety. Upon finding the gun pro will think, "what idiot left this gun unattended?" while some women will regard the gun like a coiled rattler. (Of course most boy will say "cool" and reach to play with it). Knife reactions will be tamer. If some idiot is playing with the gun, even a pro may be somewhat alarmed, he probably would be simply amused if the guy is showing off with a knife.

In a situation of agression a gun is generally seen not just as a threat of harm, but also a tool of control. The police carry guns and they are seen as trying to control the public. In a sense a person with a gun is more likely to be seen as taking care of business. A person who behaves calmly with a gun is seen as a threat, but is also seen to have a certain authority. If they behave irrationally or very agressive the fear level will escalate, but it is most commonly a fear of sudden death. This is seen as painful, but not lingering, crippling, or disfiguring.

Calm or raving, an agressor with a knife is seen as threatening to maim, disfigure, or disembowel you. He is not seen as simply trying to establish control. He is seen as trying to create fear in his target, as an end in itself, or as intending to hack someone up to cause, pain, disfigurement and death. An agressor with a knife is likelier to be perceived as a sadist. Some of this attitude may actually be true, much of it comes from "slasher" movies.

A person defending himself with a gun is also perceived as trying to establish control. This makes it a little easier to back down an assailant, since you merely are having a slight disagreement about who is going to control a situation. On the other hand if you pull a knife on an assailant he will have a tendency to perceive that you are trying to scare him. Now it becomes a pride issue. If he has an audience he may feel abliged to show he can't be scared, while even alone he may get very angry if he feels you are trying to make him afraid. As an aggressor he may realize that he has a fair chance of at least hurting you before retiring from the scene, so you are likelier to have to use a knife than a gun. At times like this you wish that thugs had a better sense of self preservation.

It can be very advantageous if you pull a knife on an aggressor to persuade him you are crazy. This makes you harder to predict and likelier to attack him rather than to wait for his move. If you are crazy, you aren't trying to scare him, which takes much of his pride out of the picture. He also doesn't need to compete with you for control, since you aren't even under control of yourself.

Now, back in the courtroom, you have trouble if you actually have disemboweled your assailant. This is not perceived as a means of control like shooting him. It is perceived as maiming unto death. You are better off if you scared him away with your craziness or shot him. An exception might be made if you make a cut to a limb. A hand cut or even a stab to the thigh may be sold as a defense a lot easier than a cut or stab to the body, head, or neck. So act crazy, slash the guys leg, and run like hell.
 
Well I've experience 2 gunshot wounds in my life and I fear the knife cut more. I'm not making light of gunshot wounds but I'd rather deal with either of the ones I survived than a serious cut.

Now if you ask me what I'd rather have to defend myself, the answer is a gun. Knives are too close and personal for me as a tactical weapon. I prefer to use knives for cutting boxes and vegetables.

I prefer to use guns for breaking flying clay targets, for that matter.

Take care.



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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com


 
Fear both.

In a Dutch soccer riot there were 2 Dutch fans armed defending themselves with mult attackers armed with 2x4 types. One Dutch fan, let's call him D1, had a club weapon while D2 (heh!) had a butcher knife.

Both were cornered figuratively because of other rioters running around. D2 had a short weapon and swung it back and forth in a short manner while backing up.

D1, was moving too with his club. The attackers backed off D2 even though he was backing off. D1 moved back then charged swinging, then was tripped by one rioter and pounced by 2 others.

Guns are loud and it's enlightening to see the wrong end of one. TV can't give you the feeling.

It's been about a year since I injured my left hand with a butterfly sword. The tradition continued last night, where I impaled my right palm with the tip of my Endura while practicing cuts.

Blood spurted and shot the comp screen and keyboard. The point maybe went in 1/4" and luckily, unlike last year's cut didn't put me in shock.

Maybe I'd better get another trainer for Christmas.
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Peace to all,
Smoke
 
Now that's real odd. I've been bitten a number of times in my life, even had a goodly sized blade stuck up into my right kidney, but I'm more affraid of being shot than stabbed/cut. I guess it's `cause I'm not so familiar with firearms.
 
BTW, ever hear about muggings with .380 and .25's?

There's the ones were the victim gave his money but is angry because the baddie used a 'small gun' just a 'small gun'.
 
Hiya! It's me again!!!
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Getting back to your question about creating a more positive image about the knife....

It's my opinion that prejudice of any kind is based upon a peron's laziness.

Whether someone has preconceived notions about a particular race or religion, of if they just hate guns or knives, those folks just find it easier to have a formed opinion in their mind to the effect of, "I already have the answer for that. These people/items are BAD!". Generally, these folks will have "discussions" about their hated topic and will spout all of their rhetoric without listening to another person's point of view. God forbid the person say something that makes sense and they'd have to change their preconceived notion!
"THE WORLD IS FLAT, FLAT, FLAT, I TELL YOU!!!"
There's a fear of having their idea of reality shattered so it's just easier to say that certain things are bad, just bad, end of subject.

This is especially evident in anti-gun propaganda. We've all seen these folks spout off all kinds of "facts" that are based upon total bull****.

"Eddie Eagle encourages children to commit crimes with guns", etc. They'll never admit that the Eddie Eagle program was developed for children's safety... and the media backs them up.

Nothing personal, but the majority of people are sheep. The media, whether it's news or movies, proclaims an opinion repeatedly, and the masses will believe because it's easier to get their facts from a 30 second sound bite or from watching a 90 minute movie that glorifies violence. Don't get me wrong, I like action flicks as much as the next guy, but I sure as hell don't take the lead from Rambo, Dirty Harry or Mel Gibson!

I think that the bottom line is that the majority of people are happy with their preconceived notions of knives. If they already assume that knives are deadly and wicked, IMO, there's not a damned thing that anyone's going to be able to do to change their opinion.
It's too difficult for the sheep.

Happy Turkey Day!!
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VG

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Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.


 
thanks, Jeff: you said what i was trying to say, only you said it much better
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so, trying to extrapolate from Jeff's lucidity using my peculiar brand of logic: in the general psyche (if there is such a thing as a "general psyche"), guns are more evocative of power-and-control, and knives evoke more connotations of emotion-and-uncontrolled-aggression. if the two create such different associations in our psyches, it would make sense that some folks would fear one more than the other, and that which you fear more is dependent upon the makeup of your own personal demons.

in other words: if what you fear is someone taking total control of you, then perhaps guns would spook you more. if what you fear is being in a situation where no one has control (not even the person with the weapon), then perhaps knives would be your greater fear.

i don't know, those are just my pre-coffee ramblings...but i have the sense that there's some truth (for me, at least) in there somewhere, if my foggy morning brain could just get hold of it.

this is a fascinating topic, Phil. you guys are really getting to me, you know: i dreamed about the forum last night, and woke up mulling over this which-is-more-scary-and-why topic on this sunny san diego thanksgiving morning...

i may be turning into one sick chick
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but i'm having so much FUN!

silverwing

[This message has been edited by silverwing (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
VG, you're absolutely right about one thing: people's views on knives, guns, sharpened forks, whatever, are religious in nature. i think that's an important insight about something we knifeknuts have to be respectful of: knifefear, gunfear--both point to something planted deep within folks, something we cannot casually change, something that represents a vitally important Truth to whomever we are dealing with.

but folks change their religious beliefs more frequently than we realize. their beliefs change for all kinds of reasons, but the point is: religious beliefs can, and sometimes do, change.

take me, for example. i used to be a rabid anti-gun person. understandable, given that one of the most life-changing events i've had to face involved me staring down the barrel of a gun, wondering if that would be the last thing i ever saw. for 16 years, i thought guns were basically evil. i was terrified of them. i remember being in grad school (i studied clinical psych, of all things) and we had a LEO come visit, and as part of the "get comfy with the police" session, he passed around his unloaded gun. i couldn't even bear to touch it. i shrank back from it like it was going to manufacture bullets from its own innards and shoot me without any human help.

this summer, i asked my sweetie to take me to the shooting range with him sometime. i'd like to learn to responsibly handle firearms. i don't know what changed my mind, but some switch inside me flipped, and i realized that guns were tools as well as weapons, and that i wanted the self-confidence that would come from learning to master what had once mastered me.

i guess i grew up enough to realize that guns are only as scary as the person behind them. they're just hunks of steel, after all.

of course, should the unthinkable happen, and i end up on the wrong side of one yet again, i know i will still be very, very afraid--because now i know how much the misuse of a gun, even if it is never fired, can forever change one's life.

the difference is that now i respect guns and fear the person behind them, instead of fearing the gun itself.

silverwing
 
Silverwing, you bring up a good point.
I was speaking in general however.
When it comes to guns and knives, the average person "goes with the flow". If the media tells them that something is "bad", the average person will usually sit back, say, "Oh, so that's the truth!".
For example, how many times have we heard, "[pick a number of persons] was killed by a handgun today."

Now, for the most part, I would think that the members of this forum are gun friendly. But the "average" person usually wouldn't feel strongly one way or the other, allowing the media reports to form their opinions for them.
They're not willing to really thing akout the absurdity of a statement such as the one above!
Did a handgun just put on its pants one day and take the bus to a future crime scene and start pulling its own trigger? (Hey, that can cause blindness in more than one way! sorry...)
But the media deliberately makes the statement in that form.
I can't think of any examples, but I'm positive that the media's had the same effect on me on another topic.... be it nukes, animal rights, racially heated topics and such.
I for one, usually try to form my own opinions on whatever is being spewed forth from the talking heads on TV, but in my life, I have seen people take whatever is being said as Gospel. My ex-wife and kids for example, have said things that sipport my theory. Many's a time where some ridiculous theory's been spouted on the TV and they've said, "Oh, that's TERRIBLE!!! Guns should be outlawed so that these things wouldn't happen anymore!"
Well, there's a couple of hundred million firearms in this country and it's a bit late to try and get rid of 'em.
It's a pie in the sky attitude.... "If we just wish for it, it shall be."
I'm drifting again... go figure!
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IMO, the members here are NOT indicitive of our society as a whole however.
Silverwing, I believe that YOU'RE the exception.... you felt strongly about something, and for good reason! Yet you didn't close your mind to an opposing view.
THAT'S the difference.
Again, I'm attempting to convey my idea of how the "average" person in this country reacts to preconceived notions..... not everyone.

WHOA!! DINNER!!!!
Gotta run!

Hope I made some sense... it'd be a first!
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VG

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Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.




[This message has been edited by Vampire Gerbil (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Vamp,
You're really pondering now my friend. I agree most people are sheep, in fact the most common answer to a question I raised earlier. "What' the biggest problem with the world today, Ignorance or Apathy?" is "I don't know and I don't care!"
People's beliefs and perceptions can be changed, as Silverwing said. All I really want to do is change a few peoples missguided view of knives. Guns, for me is a whole different issue, I'm not going to the GunForums. I like guns, I own one, I love knives and own many. I don't put the two in the same category. Some do, they have here, I'd like to see a bigger distinction made, if possible. A knife to me is so much more than a WEAPON! That is a last resort.
Wow, Silverwing your dreaming of this stuff, all I was looking for is some pondering, that's great.
 
Hi Folks,

Good thread
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Perceptions = reality?

Knives are up close and personal. The person wielding the blade will have to be close enough to touch you, for you to hear their breath exhale, see their glistening sweat, the blade or their eyes...wounds are seen as slower, painful, messy. There is something insanely evil about someone getting that close to you to slice you, to hear you gasp and see you bleed. The intent is infinately more personal. That's the "horror" aspect of knives.

Guns are dispassionate. You can be killed by an AD when the .45 falls off the table and hits the floor. Accidental death is more common with a gun, of course. And distant, remote control-ish. You can shoot one guy a bunch of times, or several guys, in a matter of seconds. Impersonally, and with relative safety unless they're packin', too.

Again, perception.

But, because of the relative lethality of the knife vs. the gun, the "horror" of the knife is balanced by the fact that you can outrun a knife. But not a bullet.

Knives don't frighten me like guns do. And I like guns, a lot. Just a feeling of no control if someone I don't know has one - don't know what they're gonna do, if it's loaded, or what. Or if I see one unattended - is it loaded, sear/trigger condition, WHAT is it doing unattended... More uneasy questions than with a knife. See a knife unattended? No big deal.

See someone with a knife? Also no big deal, unless they're advancing with malice aforethought. Otherwise, maybe he's got to cut a radiator hose or something. Knives are mostly tools. James Mattis says it well, "Good tools to sustain life, or at least make it more convenient".

Someone with a gun? Different gut reaction, possibly one of menace and deadly potential, or possibly one of salvation. Guns are tools, too, but far more serious in their application.

I think more people are afraid of a gun. It exudes power.

Kinda like Gort, in "The Day The Earth Stood Still" (bear with me, this just flashed in...). Gort had "absolute power over us. This power cannot be revoked." Depends on who's controlling the power, the gun. Who do you trust to wield that power over you? Digressing, sorry...

Guns are absolute more quickly than knives. And to the uninitiated, scarier.


Nick




[This message has been edited by chetchat (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Sorry if this ends up being a duplicate post, we just had a power glitch and the system shut down.

I can get on a plane and in other restrictive places with a small knife but not with a small firearm. I think that outside of a rural area people tend to perceive larger knives as weapons as smaller ones will usually work ok, often better. A rational approach that might help to calm some fears about seeing larger knives is to point out that for a few decades now the larger 'Buck' knives have been popular, 'tactical' knives lately, and that since at least the 1930s the homicide rate for knives as weapons has been low and pretty stable compared to the large overall changes. Also, knives only produce about twice as many homicides as 'personal weapons', hands and feet, so they're not as deadly as most would assume, at least in whatever a typical homicide situation is. Firearms are different as they're only used in about 20% of violent crimes but they've responsible for about 70% of homicides for decades now, and most of the large changes in the homicide rate has been due to firearms used as weapons. When one compares crime rates in the US with England one surprisingly finds that the US has lower crime rates, including violent crime rates, except for homicide where it is about six times higher than in England. If knives were as deadly as some assume then we wouldn't see as much difference in the homicide rates between knives and firearms, and between the US and England.

If the knife community wants to engage in a 'hearts and minds' campaign it probably makes sense to minimize the 'commie liberal sheep' rhetoric, at least in public. I can imagine some well intentioned knife owners getting together to publish a pamphlet for distribution titled 'Facts about Knives for Ignorant Sheep' :^)

 
Are we perpetuating a negative conation to knives?

If we love knives, is that a good thing?

If not what can we do as a group, or as individuals to change that?

 
Are we perpetuating a negative conation to knives?

If we love knives, is that a good thing?

If not what can we do as a group, or as individuals to change that?

As Knifenuts, is that in our mutual best interest?
 
I guess as part of improving the public image of knives I'll have to stop saying, "I gonna cut choo sucka".
 
Hi PhilL
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One thing I heard a week or two ago on the radio brought home a truth that I hadn't fully realized before :

Listening to a favorite late night talk show host, one of the callers suggested that the host (an avowed, rational gun owner) occasionally cite statistics that anti-gun organizations refuse to touch - the frequency with which lawfully armed citizens are able to defend themselves successfully, from home invasions, robberies, personal attacks, etc., in an attempt to educate the masses.

The host replied, in effect, "that it wouldn't change anyone's mind."

And I believe that he's correct, for the most part. It's such an emotional, deep felt issue, that few people would be swayed by discussion, arguments, or statistics. Actual experience, probably, but not verbal intercourse.

I think the same could be said of this thread, unless I'm missing your point here. We know how we feel, and can discuss the pros and cons of knives honestly, without blind emotion clouding our ability to be rational.

'Course, these are the same folks who are so passionate regarding the recent knife test results, so I might be mistaken
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The "negative connotation" for knives exists in a lot of arenas. Same as guns, fast cars.. lots of cool, fun, potentially dangerous things. Setting a good example, being good knife using citizens would possibly go farthest in dehorning that devil.


Take care,

Nick





[This message has been edited by chetchat (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Nick,
I'm talking more about deeds rather than words. If members of the Forums believe words like this, "Personaly, both knives and guns are just weapons like any other with their own strengths and weaknesses." And, " everyone knows that civilized beings use guns to kill; only animals stoop to using sharp pointy things..." Then maybe trying to change the General Publics oppinion on knives is hopeless. Maybe I'm just whipping a dead horse, maybe not.
 
I think of it as what would I rather not be injured by. With that, I'd rahter deal with a gun, so I guess I'm more afraid of knives.
 
The general public has an irrational fear of firearms- I think it has something to do with the perception of the percieved futility of living through an encounter with someone with a gun... I think a bad guy in an alley with a knife calmly walking toward a victim is more frightening, and so do a few others I know- but it is only a few.

Erik
 
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