Getting ready to purchase an Edge Pro Apex and am trying to decide between the standard stones and Shapton glass stones. I have a little bit of everything from 1095, 154CM, VG10, S30V, S35V, etc.. What are your recommendations and why? Any info will be greatly appreciated!
Are Shaptons that much better than Edge Pro
- Thread starter abey67
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I have the Edge Pro with the Shapton Glass. My experiences and thoughts :
I would get these if I were you.
I was able to sharpen and some what reprofile up to and including M390.
With the S110V I was able to "sharpen" it at the same or one degree or so slightly steeper angles to hair whittling many times. The edges did not hold up well. I would have been better off FINISHING the edges with super fine diamond stones or for toothy edges finish with a more coarse diamond stone.
HOWEVER
Reprofiling was practically impossible with the Shapton glass on the S110V. When I got down on the whole sharpening bevel (not the main shape of the knife just the factory sharpening bevel) abrading the high vanadium steel alloy was very slow going and the stones glazed and all but stopped cutting. I was using 120 which wore very fast and is an overly soft stone for this alloy and I was using 220 which is much more robust and wear resistant (night and day) but the stone still was not up to the job and just glazed and stopped cutting. Refreshing it on a diamond plate got it cutting again but not for long.
You may expeience a some what similar senario with the S30V. I have only one blade in that alloy and it is a safe queen so I only can relate what I have read.
You should plan on getting diamond plates for the Edge Pro for these high vanadium alloys. Using a 220 DMT diamond plate free hand I was able to blaze through S110V in little time and take off very significant quantities of the bevel to reprofile the knife.
S35V
As I understand it S35V is more easily abraded and takes a higher polish with less effort. The only edges I have in that are serrated and I use conical diamond rods.
1095, 154CM, VG10
Those are going to love the Shapton glass stones.
I have no experience with the regular stones the Edge Pro comes with.
If you plan on using much M390 and similar alloys (medium hard;61 to 64 high alloy stainless steels) then the Shaptons are the thing to use.
As I understand it the regular Edge Pro stones are going to be a little more suited to the 1095 even if very hard 63, 64.
The Shapton glass work well for this for sure.
I would get these if I were you.
I was able to sharpen and some what reprofile up to and including M390.
With the S110V I was able to "sharpen" it at the same or one degree or so slightly steeper angles to hair whittling many times. The edges did not hold up well. I would have been better off FINISHING the edges with super fine diamond stones or for toothy edges finish with a more coarse diamond stone.
HOWEVER
Reprofiling was practically impossible with the Shapton glass on the S110V. When I got down on the whole sharpening bevel (not the main shape of the knife just the factory sharpening bevel) abrading the high vanadium steel alloy was very slow going and the stones glazed and all but stopped cutting. I was using 120 which wore very fast and is an overly soft stone for this alloy and I was using 220 which is much more robust and wear resistant (night and day) but the stone still was not up to the job and just glazed and stopped cutting. Refreshing it on a diamond plate got it cutting again but not for long.
You may expeience a some what similar senario with the S30V. I have only one blade in that alloy and it is a safe queen so I only can relate what I have read.
You should plan on getting diamond plates for the Edge Pro for these high vanadium alloys. Using a 220 DMT diamond plate free hand I was able to blaze through S110V in little time and take off very significant quantities of the bevel to reprofile the knife.
S35V
As I understand it S35V is more easily abraded and takes a higher polish with less effort. The only edges I have in that are serrated and I use conical diamond rods.
1095, 154CM, VG10
Those are going to love the Shapton glass stones.
I have no experience with the regular stones the Edge Pro comes with.
If you plan on using much M390 and similar alloys (medium hard;61 to 64 high alloy stainless steels) then the Shaptons are the thing to use.
As I understand it the regular Edge Pro stones are going to be a little more suited to the 1095 even if very hard 63, 64.
The Shapton glass work well for this for sure.
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I have used the factory stones on a variety of different steels, but not everything. I'd suggest calling Edge Pro. Ben will talk to you about the factory stones for the steels you named. The factory stones would be a far lower-cost option if they'll work.
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I think steels like S110V that have extreme amounts of Vanadium should be sharpened with a Coarse DMT and called good. Shapton's can do the job fairly well to about 500 grit but not worth the effort when compared to diamond plates IMO. Much easier, faster and you get sharper edges with the diamond plates on such high alloy steels. The Shapton Glass stones will sharpen any of the steels listed in the OP without too much trouble but I would still consider some diamond plates for high V steels.
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I use the Atoma 140 to set a bevel, then clean that up with an Atoma 400. I try not to Apex with the 140. That sets you up to use the 220, 320, and 500 grit Glasstones on steels up to S110V. I don't go any finer than that on most of my knives. S110V for me is still not quite as sharp as less extreme steels like CPM M4 or CPM Cruwear at that grit, and it takes longer on each grit, but it still pushcuts thin phonebook paper with ease and catches hair above the skin. The 1000 and finer Glasstones don't cut the extreme vanadium steels good enough to recommend. I've found 4% Vanadium (CPM M4 and S30V) is about the upper limit that the finer Glasstones can cleanly cut, and you still might be better off with quality diamond stones and abrasives. I generally don't go finer that 500 grit with a few light passes with the 16000 grit Glasstone at a slightly elevated angle for my EDC knives. I find that to be a good combination of push cutting along with good slicing aggression for my cutting.
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Venev bonded diamond stones, CBN, and Shapton glass are all stones i would recommend for higher end steels'. most of the steel you have will work fine with the standard stones the edge pro comes with tho. shapton will work for a bunch of different steel also, but as mentioned in above posts, wont work on everything.
i like the bonded diamond stones for nice crisp edges and removing material. i like the scratch pattern alot. i dont have the finer grit venev stones tho.
i dont have CBN yet, but gonna get some. its said the scratch pattern at the higher grit levels is more idea than the venev stones (so instead of getting say a 2000 grit venev stone just get the 1200 grit cbn stone.
a friend i know who does sharpening professionally uses the shaptons (iirc diamond stones for re profiling).
i like the bonded diamond stones for nice crisp edges and removing material. i like the scratch pattern alot. i dont have the finer grit venev stones tho.
i dont have CBN yet, but gonna get some. its said the scratch pattern at the higher grit levels is more idea than the venev stones (so instead of getting say a 2000 grit venev stone just get the 1200 grit cbn stone.
a friend i know who does sharpening professionally uses the shaptons (iirc diamond stones for re profiling).
I am pretty sure Ben would recomend what he sells, based on his answer to this question in the wranglerstar video of his tour of Edge Pro.
As far as Shapton Glass vs the Boride and polishing stones from Edge Pro I personally didn't like the Shaptons when I tried them, I borrowed Edge Pro's full set. They don't absorb water so you have to keep adding it while sharpening even small knives, they cut very slowly, cost much more, and the finished polish between the Shapton 35k? and the Edge Pro 4k is identical. The one plus is I think the Shapton Glass will last forever, but so will the Edge Pro polishing stones.
As far as Shapton Glass vs the Boride and polishing stones from Edge Pro I personally didn't like the Shaptons when I tried them, I borrowed Edge Pro's full set. They don't absorb water so you have to keep adding it while sharpening even small knives, they cut very slowly, cost much more, and the finished polish between the Shapton 35k? and the Edge Pro 4k is identical. The one plus is I think the Shapton Glass will last forever, but so will the Edge Pro polishing stones.