Are StandardsToo High for Customs?

[made2cut]

Speaking as a newbie I was really disappointed as almost all of the customs I have bought had some flaw, grinds were not perfect, a little epoxy wasn't cleaned up, the edges were not smoothed out, etc... I have an eye for perfection and I just assumed that if I could see these imperfections why didn't the maker see them as well and correct them??? I guess I have come to realize that making "perfect" knives isn't as easy as I thought, especially if you are trying to get them out the door to pay your bills.

I have come to terms with the "flaws" and accept them as character marks that make the knife unique. The customs I have bought are f/b's under $200, now if I paid something like $400 and up I really would expect a flawless piece.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Bugs3X Welcome back!
The knife maker should listen to critics and consider their thoughts. Those who take critics too seriously and seek to satisfy them will bow to tradition and probably not leave their potneial individual, creative mark in the world of knives.

Some years ago I saw an advertisment for a 'club knife'. The knife looked very friendly and I bought one. When it came I liked it, all edges rounded, it felt good in my hands and cut very well. A few months later I read a critics thoughts in one of the magazines. He condemend the knife for uneven grind lines, scratches left on the blade and handle and many more faults. I had not noticed them. I again looked at the knife with his thoughts in mind and for the first time saw what he said. The faults were insignificant to function and there were more creative aspects that I could see. I still have the knife, and still like it a lot more than those who would have been praised by the crtic.

I recently held an early knife made by one of the
patriarks of the world of knives. The workmanship was very crude, but somehow the knife spoke of a higher nature. I could have bought it for several hundred dollars. I direcetd the seller to some folks who could appreciate the knife for what it meant and they received a fair price for the knife that is worth thousands.

Many Native Americans purposfully left a fault in their handiwork to let the evil spirits out. I feel that the fault on purpose was more to satisy the critic and allow creativity to blossom.

One time a client came to my table, looked at my knives for a while then asked if he could look closer. I said sure! He pulled out a magnifying glass and started looking knives over real close. He drew quite a crowd, waiting for some comment, but there was none. I invited him to sit behind the table with me to clear the aisle, he did. After a while he purchased a knife. I asked him what he was looking for, he smiled and said "I don't know, you know a lot more about knives than I do, I was just wondering what you would do."

The knife makers who have left their mark in the world of knives sought a whole lot more than surface perfection in their work.

 

[Fox Creek]

Peter, you have a lot of moxi for bring up this question. And its a good 'un. My hats off to you! I think Ed F. hits about the right tone in his comments above. Are Standards too high? Well, maybe, maybe not. Standards vary greatly as responses have shown. There is nothing wrong with valuing and appreciating mechanical perfection, or the pursuit of it, but I see a danger of a certain anonymity or sterility creeping in. There are collectors, and users, who have an appreciation for those knives which are both first quality, and give evidence of the hand of the maker. The natural variations of handwork are not incompatible with traditional good craftsmanship, and should not be confused with overt flaws. I find it delightful to be able to look at an old piece, and follow with my mind and eye the maker's hand as, for instance, a casting was filed up, chased and finished with tools from the hand of the same craftsman. It doesnt take me long to get through looking at a perfect knife.

 

[marcangel]

I agreed with the first reply, give me the darn knife. Do I expect better than "factory grade" fit and finish? Damn right I do! At $800 to a $1000 a pop, do I usually get it, sometimes....But that is relative to the factory you're judging. Check out Moki, or Wm. Henry, tough to beat. I'm paying for what I want, whether it's material, design, etc. Two things that turn me off on a custom folder are "less than silky operation" (i.e. the grinding detent ball) and crappy bevels. Do I expect perfection from a handmade knife? Of course not, then it wouldn't be handmade!

 

[L6steel]

Excellent thread Peter!

 

[Jim Richardson]

In every object there are two sets of standards. There is the first set, the makers set, the vision of the finished product that is yet to be. The other set of standards are those of the buyer. And there is no realy connection between the two. In my limited experience I've found that the closer those two sets of standards are to one another, the better the buying experience.

But it isn't all in the final product either. There are things like

• communication before the knife is started
• ongoing communication while it's being made
• meeting timelines
• price

When all these come together things are great. But many are the responsibility of the buyer. The buyer really needs to be part of the creation process for everything to work.

 

[RJ Martin]

The standard set by a maker for his own work should be "perfection".
Buyers should judge knives based on their knowledge of the knife. That is, they should know how to look at a knife so that they see any flaws in a knife before they decide if it's of satisfactory quality for the price being asked. If you don't yet know how to evaluate a knife in under 20 seconds, seek out a top purveyor like Les Robertson or ask a friendly, top notch maker who's making great knives. They will be happy to give you a lesson. Yes, every knife is going to have some kind of flaw. If the maker is doing his work, then the flaws will be very minor and you should have to look carefully to find them.
How the craftsmanship blends and balances in the final knife is significant. This point has been touched on by others here. The overall appearance of the knife, IMO, should say "crisp and clean", and the lines should all flow gracefully. The handle should melt into your hand, and, when you hold the blade, your brain should be screaming to you to find something to cut! NOW!
Pay attention to that edge, too. You can learn a lot about a knife by evaluating the edge carefully.
Don't forget to ask the maker questions-even the tough ones.(Tough questions, that is, not tough makers).

Stay Sharp,

RJ Martin

 

[Bimmer1]

Hell! If your custom knife comes with a kydex sheath it will be less than perfect after you take it out a few times.


The only problem I have had with a few custom makers is that they don't seem to take the time to put a good sharp edge on their blades. I've never been much of a knife sharpener so I would like to receive my knives with a great edge on them.

Most of my custom knives have all had small imperfections, but then so do many of my production blades.

What is perfection anyway? How do we define it? I may look at what you think is less than perfect and it may look perfect to me.
I may think that a Porsche automobile is perfect but you may think otherwise. Who will step forward and give us the standard of perfection. Is there a man among us?

 

[Darby]

Merriam says!!!

Main Entry: 1per·fect
Pronunciation: 'p&r-fikt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English parfit, from Old French, from Latin perfectus, from past participle of perficere to carry out, perfect, from per- thoroughly + facere to make, do -- more at DO
Date: 14th century
1 a : being entirely without fault or defect : FLAWLESS <a perfect diamond> b : satisfying all requirements : ACCURATE c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman> d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : LETTER-PERFECT e : legally valid
2 : EXPERT, PROFICIENT <practice makes perfect>
3 a : PURE, TOTAL b : lacking in no essential detail : COMPLETE

synonyms PERFECT, WHOLE, ENTIRE, INTACT mean not lacking or faulty in any particular. PERFECT implies the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state <a perfect set of teeth>. WHOLE suggests a completeness or perfection that can be sought, gained, or regained <felt like a whole person again after vacation>. ENTIRE implies perfection deriving from integrity, soundness, or completeness of a thing <the entire Beethoven corpus>. INTACT implies retention of perfection of a thing in its natural or original state <the boat survived the storm intact>.

 

[Peter Del Raso]

THIS MAY BE A LITTLE TO SIMPLIFIED BUT IT SOUNDS LOGICAL TO ME.
"ALWAYS MAKE THE BEST YOU CAN, ALWAYS BUY THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD"

 

[Ed Fowler]

Many makers in the history of knives have developed their craft to the point that the knives they made transcend what can be seen, only inferred from the surface. Excalibur did not need prescious stones in her handle to elevate her mark. At the Riverton gun show last weekend I found two such knives, the makers unknown. While neither of them would have shined in the judges eye of today, it did not take long to see they were far beyond their companions.
More recent knifemakers known to most of us were Rudy Ruana and Frank Richtig, scoffed at by many ctitics, they still lead the pack when it comes to honest value.

 

[racer roy]

A custom knife collection is rather like having a harem full of virgins. Even though most of the time they are only ogled and fondled, they should be able to perform if you decide that you can handle the first user depreciation. On the same note, everybody needs a user. One that will always give good service, even if it has a flaw or two and some blemishes from use. The problem seems to be that too many people today are buying a grinder, grabbing a piece of steel and a chunk of wood, and announcing to the world, "I are a custom knife maker!". This truely does a dis-service to all those who have toiled, and studied, and learned, for many hungry years. The value of a knife is in the service it provides, whether beauty or function or both. The knife, not the name, determines the value.
Racer Roy



KNOWLEDGE THAT IS NOT SHARED IS LOST.