are we doing any good in Iraqi?

OK I didn't start this for divided minds and names calling
I'll coment more when I get back home to my reg putter..


but I will say Whit
my neice has done her first tour there and there was a green zone for her and others to go to, I'm not sure why you didn't or was not told there was one:confused: ..
she went there twice that I know of..I can't remember the name of tje place off the top of my head but I can find out as soon as I get back home if you want?
voters vote these guys in that repersent us we can get rid of them..
vote..look at lthe % that don't vote.. that's a swing vote right there,, the ones that think it won't matter..:(
 
Dan,
I don't think I said anything about the Green Zone. Things change a lot, I was there in 2003. I'm sure things are much improved as far as quality of life for soldiers, just as it has for Iraqis.

This is exactly why I started my first post with "I usually don't comment......"

So to answer your original question........ Yes, I KNOW we are doing some good. I was there at the beginning, and many of my friends have been there since, and are there now. Despite the fact that when I look at the casualties, they are not just some number to be used for political purposes, they are sometimes my friends.......I believe we need to stay and finish what we started. Who will know when we're done? Well it's like finishing a knife I guess. At some point you just have to say, "OK, that looks right."

I'll learn my lesson someday, debating is not worth it on here sometimes! I'll try to stick to knife talk.
 
Can we move this thread to the political forum where it belongs. For those who still want to beat this well flogged horse. Lets talk knives here. Fred
 
I apologize for posting, then, Fred. I was under the impression that political chitchat between knifemakers was part of what the "off topic" posting Around the Grinder was for...........
 
Around the Grinder is our own forum for OT subjects and we are better off here. Even when we are being contentious we have a different attitude towards one another than in those other places.

I spent a little over four years in the army from '64 to '68 and we were lied to then. We did not get the support then that the troops are getting from the media and the public now. We did not get any appreciation until years later and then grudging.

We are obviously doing good in Iraq. We could have done it better by going whole hog with a plan for reconstruction and enough troops to avoid some of the pitfalls we have experienced there. Hindsight is always 20/20.

George the First didn't go all the way in order to not destabilize the region during Gulf I -as explained by Powell and Schwarzkopf back then.
 
fitzo said:
I apologize for posting, then, Fred. I was under the impression that political chitchat between knifemakers was part of what the "off topic" posting Around the Grinder was for...........
Click to expand...
This forum is for o.t. chit chat and no one owes an apoligy for expressing their views, us included. The knifemaking comunity consist of many talented individuals, most of them have strong opinions about what they do, how they do it, and where they are headed. We are also people who gladly share our knowledge with others,
who are trying to learn. That is why I'm on this site. I really enjoy learning
from other makers. I also like to help others who are getting started.
When I see a great back and forth discussion about, heat treating or the like,
I beliieve we all benifit. I, for one, have learned a great deal. When we are stating our personal opinions on such a broad and devisive subject as "The War", I think it has a tendency to polarize people. When I see a post, by you or any knifemaker, what I want my mind to recall is the great knives you make and how willing you are to share your knowledge. I would rather leave your politics out of the equation. Fred :D
 
edited to add
Fred I see you posted just before me while I was writing.. also I will listen to anything Mike has to say political or other wise, thank you for the come back..

Fred.Rowe said:
Can we move this thread to the political forum where it belongs. For those who still want to beat this well flogged horse. Lets talk knives here. Fred
Click to expand...

...
fitzo said:
I apologize for posting, then, Fred. I was under the impression that political chitchat between knifemakers was part of what the "off topic" posting Around the Grinder was for...........
Click to expand...
Mike your absolutely right to post here..

Fred sorry I feel Mikes right to post here..I wrote the topic.


Whit
yes things do change and I meant nothing other than to learn more truth..
I am sorry:o
I thought that it was you that had mentioned .. no green zone for the troops...
again I apologize

in re-reading the posts,, it was Mr Coons that said that...

R.Coon-Knives said:
Unlike some wars, there is little relief for the soldiers in Iraq - no safe place to retreat to - no R&R, green zone notwithstanding.
Click to expand...
Mr Coons is wrong, there is a green zone for rest..I know this to be a fact..
it's outside of that country.it's in Qatar

It's mentioned here that we have more deaths now, yes I'm should sure it will happen, we can and will get in closer to the danger
and with more probing, it's just a fact that that's going to happen. it's Basically hand to hand combat and death tolls go up..

I count the numbers as soles too I sure wished everyone would..

I agree that the Gov lies to us but think about it sometimes it's to protect us,
we do have some citizens in our land of the free that are just under the line of good citizens.:(
some lies are to protect us and some I'm sure for greed..
there is no good ,,one answer to it all..

Bill Thanks for the E-mail , I agree with you whole heartedly 100%..on it all.
 
"notwithstanding" \prep, from not + withstanding prp. of withstanden to withstand]: in spite of

Merriam Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary

So, as you can see I wasn't saying that there were no green zones, I was implying that even though there are green zones, I'm not so sure that they offer that much relief. You no doubt recall the December 25, 2004 mess hall bombing in which 22 soldiers, Iraqi soldiers, and contractors were killed and 69 wounded.

"Then there are the almost daily mortar attacks against the zone - most of which cause little or no damage or injury, but which do rattle nerves.

So even though the Green Zone operates like an island in the Baghdad storm, it is not the picture of tranquility." The Christian Science Monitor (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0929/p07s01-woiq.html)

BAGHDAD, Oct. 14 -- Insurgents hand-carried explosives into the most fortified section of Baghdad Thursday where U.S. and Iraqi government offices are housed and detonated the bombs within seconds of each other, killing 10 people, including four Americans. The Washington Post.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31692-2004Oct14.html)

Because the green zone in Baghdad is considered, by the insurgents, to be the heart of the occupation, all of the area surrounding it is very dangerous since the insurgents know that this is where they are most likely to have a sucessful strike on someone coming or going. I have read that the road from Baghdad to the airport is the most dangerous road in the country. So, getting to and leaving a green zone can be very dangerous.

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide bombing outside the compound of the U.S.-led occupation authority in Baghdad killed at least 23 people, most of them Iraqi civilians trapped in their cars as they were waiting to pass through security checks. January 19, 2004

Insurgents have penetrated Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone to carry out two bomb attacks, at least one believed to be a suicide bombing.
Four Americans and six Iraqis are now known to have died, US officials said.

The Green Zone, where Iraqi government offices and US forces are based, comes under frequent mortar fire. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3742498.stm

The point is, the green zones are not all that safe. There is R&R back to the US. Active duty personnel become eligible after 60 days in the AOR, reserve personnel become eligible after 270 days in the AOR. Both must be on 12 month tours.
 
R.Coon-Knives said:
"notwithstanding" \prep, from not + withstanding prp. of withstanden to withstand]: in spite of

Merriam Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary
.
Click to expand...

I've miss placed my New Collegiate Dictionary, and didn't think I'd have to use one here. I know what you meant..I looked at what appeared to be implied..and to correct a wrong I did to Whit.

R.Coon-Knives said:
The point is, the green zones are not all that safe. .
Click to expand...

this brings us too.... neither are the Bronx or most the bars in the USA.
and the streets that our kids are being abducted from to be raped and killed..
pedestrians get killed every day on crosswalks..but it's not in the national media and that is the jest of it..:(
my Niece was a safe as she could be, more so than in places right here in the States.
this is turning into a C,S thread :o

it's been fun, I gotts me ahton auh O work ta do..:)
 
Dan Gray said:
it's been fun, I gotts me ahton auh O work ta do..:)
Click to expand...

Better get yer arse to work then, Dan! Politics only make ya money if you run for office or contribute heavily................:eek:
 
You are talking about two different things. "The Green Zone" is in Baghdad, and it's where most of the contractors live, and lots of Coalition offices are located. It is not by any means an R&R area. Dan is talking about R&R trips out of the country.

The mess hall attack was not even in Baghdad, certainly not in the Green Zone.
 
:foot: thanks for straightening that out for me Whit.
when Angie was talking about her R&R she evidently was talking about the green zone too, she trained the higher ups to, and her new Bo worked construction there too, so I got a few wires crossed up by the looks..
but she did go to Qatar for her R&R I got that right...:)
 
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