Are wilderness survival schools/courses worth it?

Wow, gotta say guys, I would have expected a little warmer welcome. A guy walks up with an honest question and gets nothing but everyone's hangups and baggage. I think some guys need to take a step back from the keyboard and remember why we are here, to share info and ideas. Its one thing to call out some one who's been here a while and has a few hundred posts, but crapping on a new guy just isn't cool. The guy asked for opinions on schools and training, I think that's a valid question, and I have no idea what direction he's going to take it, but the point of forums is getting current info from people directly, not just looking a months old blog posts.

I've not done a specific "survival" course, although I have done, and am in training for wilderness guiding in generally easy conditions. I'm not setting up to be an expedition leader to cross the Himalayas, but safely get a group of kids from one end of a track to another. I have an interest in the outdoors and staying alive, so there are a lot of skills I've picked up on my own.
Things I would be looking to know about the training is what skills are going to be taught, and are those global or local skills. For example, are you going to be taught generally how to light a fire, or are you going to be taught which local trees and methods are most useful of one specific area.
I would be looking at how much will be covered, as well as the class size and instructor ratio. Are the teaching theoretical and demonstration based, or is it practical and based on your own abilities?

Living off the land is going to be very different from surviving the 72 hours until you get found. And those skill sets are not exclusive, but they don't fully overlap either, nor does the mindset.
If you want to review schools, books or courses, the only way is to try them out. Compare them and fact check their information. Look at what their basic philosophies are, and the parameters or scope what they intend to accomplish. Are they trying to teach you new things, or just be as "hard core" as they can?

I've done enough training courses to know that a good course is one you can fail. I expect the instructor to teach my how to accomplish the skill, or if I cannot, figure out why, and let me know. There is nothing worse to me than not understanding why I cannot make a skill work. And if that's my physical abilities, or some other factor, a good instructor should be able to find that out. That works for something like rappelling, canoeing or other physical skills, it can be harder with skills that have a larger mental component, but its the same principal. I can learn out of a good book with a clear description. a poorly written book on the other hand just makes it harder to figure things out. Make sense?
 
Wow, gotta say guys, I would have expected a little warmer welcome. A guy walks up with an honest question and gets nothing but everyone's hangups and baggage. I think some guys need to take a step back from the keyboard and remember why we are here, to share info and ideas. Its one thing to call out some one who's been here a while and has a few hundred posts, but crapping on a new guy just isn't cool. The guy asked for opinions on schools and training, I think that's a valid question, and I have no idea what direction he's going to take it, but the point of forums is getting current info from people directly, not just looking a months old blog posts.

I've not done a specific "survival" course, although I have done, and am in training for wilderness guiding in generally easy conditions. I'm not setting up to be an expedition leader to cross the Himalayas, but safely get a group of kids from one end of a track to another. I have an interest in the outdoors and staying alive, so there are a lot of skills I've picked up on my own.
Things I would be looking to know about the training is what skills are going to be taught, and are those global or local skills. For example, are you going to be taught generally how to light a fire, or are you going to be taught which local trees and methods are most useful of one specific area.
I would be looking at how much will be covered, as well as the class size and instructor ratio. Are the teaching theoretical and demonstration based, or is it practical and based on your own abilities?

Living off the land is going to be very different from surviving the 72 hours until you get found. And those skill sets are not exclusive, but they don't fully overlap either, nor does the mindset.
If you want to review schools, books or courses, the only way is to try them out. Compare them and fact check their information. Look at what their basic philosophies are, and the parameters or scope what they intend to accomplish. Are they trying to teach you new things, or just be as "hard core" as they can?

I've done enough training courses to know that a good course is one you can fail. I expect the instructor to teach my how to accomplish the skill, or if I cannot, figure out why, and let me know. There is nothing worse to me than not understanding why I cannot make a skill work. And if that's my physical abilities, or some other factor, a good instructor should be able to find that out. That works for something like rappelling, canoeing or other physical skills, it can be harder with skills that have a larger mental component, but its the same principal. I can learn out of a good book with a clear description. a poorly written book on the other hand just makes it harder to figure things out. Make sense?

Well said.

I have no 'formal' training - or any kind of experience with "survival schools" but I have had to rely on learned skills from multiple sources [both live and on-line] on a few occasions. No 'one source' provided me with enough "tools" to overcome some obstacles....rather...the combination of all learned skills is what served me the greatest.

I would submit that they are either 'situational, climatic or terrain specific'.

Most 'schools' seem to focus on a "general" skill set, while others might be singularly concentrated. You might find a "dynamic" school here and there but IMO, those tend to be more 'militarily' designed because they encounter the most 'dynamic' problems.

While I learned most of my skills from family members who enjoy the outdoors, I have also learned from reading books, articles, publications and yes....YouTube. My family is a long line of hunters, campers and general outdoorsman. I learned most of what I know about the woods [which, in the grand scheme of things, is very little to what's actually available] from them....father, uncles and cousins.

I have learned some from books and articles written by the likes of Mors Kochanski, Dave Canterbury, the articles and logs by Horace Kephart, Nessmuk and video selections such as Alone in the Wilderness: The story of Dick Proenneke

www.dickproenneke.com

http://www.amazon.com/Woodcraft-Cam...cp_4_0Z9M?ie=UTF8&refRID=10C34EW7B8BHGY41ZH9P

http://robroy.dyndns.info/books/gws/N.HTM

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Camping-...qid=1428827005&sr=1-1&keywords=horace+kephart

http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-101-Field-Wilderness-Survival/dp/1440579776

http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-Out...d_sim_b_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1PCVX7900VK47H3XSWJF


One thing I might point out is that what the books focus on most is "wilderness survival"......but not necessarily in the situation where - let's say - your "single engine Piper went down in a controlled crash and now yer stuck until found" - type of situation. They are more geared for intentionally leaving to and staying in...and "being one with, and living off of, the land."

The only real way to learn if "survival schools" like James Yeager/ Tacticalresponse.com ; WildernessOutfitters http://www.thepathfinderstore.com ; Mantis Outdoors http://mantisoutdoorsllc.com ; BlackScoutSurvival http://www.blackscoutsurvival.com .....are the "correct" or "best" schools to attend is subjective to the person being schooled. You need to decide "what" it is you are surviving and then proceed from there.
 
First duty of a researcher is to explain their background
I have no experience, I have not done any bush craft but I am an avid backpacker
Therefore.....

After researching the web and coming up with a whole bunch of information, the OP can ask an honest question here
I do not see using here as a primary source as honest research
 
Pick the nearest school that teaches some basic skills that you don't have and go from there. My hope is that in your article you will explain to people that no amount of reading about a subject is an acceptable replacement for having achieved a tangible level of proficiency and skill in any area. Bushcraft/fieldcraft is a hands on endeavor, and what you are paying for is the passing on of techniques that work, and have proven to work; so you can cut down on the TIME it takes to gain a basic skillset. Knowledge is key but without the knowledge that can only come from skills that demand application.... is any amount of reading or watching videos truly giving you the knowledge?!




douglasbarryfield is offline
 
He's asking other people to do his homework for him. Spreading unverified information about things like survival can get people killed. But he's getting paid to write a blog post so who cares?
 
In the main I think it depends very much on who the participant is, who is doing the teaching, and what exactly is being taught.

On this very forum I've seen photos from a course demonstrating utter boswellox in action. Photos of traps being made badly [whilst under direct supervision], photos of a guy apparently teaching navigation stabbing at a map with his dirty great finger [at the time I commented on how that behaviour often gets one awarded pushups], details of where the alleged course was being run and when demonstrating that it was little more than a jolly-up with a bit of vandalism thrown in at an area the instructors would not have had the legal privileges to conduct themselves in such a way at. Given those people were taking a fee it would be over generous to merely describe them as a clown outfit.

Another aspect I'm not especially enamoured about is what actually gets taught at some general courses. Ubiquitous seems to be; make a debris shelter, make a deeply suspicious looking fig4 trap, rub two sticks together to make fire, and mebe toast something provided up on the end of a twig. There is little of anything else. Sure, some might make the case that they are teaching the basics, but that doesn't really wash with me. Years ago when paintball first came over here I snagged up a couple of dozen of those 20 round pump action jobbies powered by the little 2” gas bottle, and a bunch of paraphernalia. We dragged a bunch of bails out into a field and a few bits of assorted farm crap. Had a wail of a time tweaking the guns up so they really hurt and bruising each other up something shocking. People chipped in for nosebags, drinks, and anything else that got used up. To call it my paintball company would be a very long stretch of the truth. I'd have felt like I was fleecing my friends to provide only that and charge them for a paintball course at my company. Yet many of these basic survival courses seem to offer little more than something equivalent to that. You get somewhere to build a fire, mebe use a Mora they lend you, and get what else? Damn straight it isn't expertise you are paying a bunch of money for. Ooh ooh, the kids down the garden a boiling water in an old tin can and chucking in a few snails and worms, says he sipping coffee on the patio and wringing his hands. Now they've built a fort, mmm, I should charge their parents for that. In short, people take liberties with the ignorant.

If that in anyway conveys the idea that I am opposed to all courses then think again. There is much to commend proper training in first aid, leadership, navigation, improvised tools, water procurement, rope work, edible plants and butchery, basic mechanics, radio operation and signalling, swimming and so on. Do you know why bear spray is better than a firearm, where dangerous sharks live, and can you understand statistics? Pukka. These kinda of things which can be extremely focused under the gaze of expert tuition and can be fantastic and fun. And at some point may well be genuinely useful to you. Add in other elements as the need arises. Are you ever likely to need to get drinking water from sea water using stuff you find on a beach? If it is possible then get some learning, innit. Are you ever likely to be popping out for a haircut and suddenly Hillary Clinton rushes at you in full must? Mebe not, so the Ninja axe course is probably low down the list. Besides, although some people can do great things with an axe most people can work them well enough just like they can figure out a hammer on their own. And only a very few healthy people will be in close proximity to an axe when an emergency arises anyway. Money could be better spent on an advanced dog training course if you lack ability at that. The point is cherry picking tutors is good.


I can think of a single redeeming feature that does apply to all courses regardless of type, and that is the concept of commitment. You've made the effort, researched it, travelled to it, paid for it, have social pressure, whatever, you have invested in it. As a motivational factor that is important. It may or may not have a huge loading to it but it is there never the less. People on a course will more readily get wet, practice making rafts in cold water, play about doing river crossings unnecessarily, go hungry, have blisters, and so on, simply because they have made a commitment to it. Left to their own devices they will try to walk round a puddle. There's all sorts of things people could easily learn to do themselves if they were motivated enough. For some it takes commitment to a formal course to bring out enough backbone to make it happen.
 
The best school and teacher is, all in all, yourself. If you want to learn skills, then delve into it and learn and practice. Ive trained quite a few people over the years and all in all, wether it was one on one, or a group, it always seemed to me that folks learned..for example...starting a fire..better through trial and error. They tend to find their OWN particular methods that best suit them. Everyone walks differently so to speak.
 
I don't know why you guys are all bent out of shape. If you feel that strongly then why on earth are you on an internet forum. Same bunk, different venue. :confused:

Because it's so much more fun to put somebody down, courageously hiding behind a screen, and so much easier than to actually provide useful information to a completely legitimate query...

Gaston
 
Best to look at the reputation of the school and what they'll teach in that particular class.
It doesn't take much to have a decent level of proficiency with the basics. Most of that can be done in your backyard and some books/youtube time.
My highschool had a semester long wilderness survival class that did a great job covering the basics without knives.

I think theres some benefit in taking classes in carving, first aid, trapping, tracking/navigation etc. Skills that involve a whole lot of error unless someone shows you the "right" way.
Best bet is to look into the schools and their reviews.
 
A good researcher that has no experience with the topic is the best as they do not have a bios. Unfortunately they need to spend time immersing themselves in the topic to fully understand it. So basically live and breath it take courses and try everything that has to do with it. Basically years of research.

Soooooo asking opinions on the internet is just wasting everyone's time
 
Best to look at the reputation of the school and what they'll teach in that particular class.
It doesn't take much to have a decent level of proficiency with the basics. Most of that can be done in your backyard and some books/youtube time.
My highschool had a semester long wilderness survival class that did a great job covering the basics without knives.

I think theres some benefit in taking classes in carving, first aid, trapping, tracking/navigation etc. Skills that involve a whole lot of error unless someone shows you the "right" way.
Best bet is to look into the schools and their reviews.

Horrors!
 
I would suggest a class to start just because that seems to be the way things are done these days. (1) Pick a survival-woods craft school and attend and you decide. It will help provide a basis for making judgements about comments on forums as well as other courses. This should provide you with a basic comfort and confidence to try it on your own with the second suggestion. (2) Buy some books and head for the woods along with some basic equipment. Go somewhere you can read and practice what is in the books. Spend a week doing this in a place you can cut down trees and so forth; maybe fish, perhaps minimalist hunting. The write your article giving it whatever slant you choose.

My personal opinion is if I were doing this, I would simply go camping with tent/shelter, cooking materials, fire making stuff, food, and then once you are safe and sound and set up a base camp, begin your training. You will have more experience than 90% of everyone making claims on the internet.
 
I'd suggest OP attend a few classes before writing a blog post about it. Second hand knowledge is just that.

Yep. I will say that I attended one put on by Kevin Estela, and learned a lot more than I would have looking online. I learned a lot about myself, and learned things that I had seen online, but not actually practiced or had shown to me by a competent instructor. I made friends too.
 
my favorite coarse was a BOSS 14-day hunter gatherer coarse, i was amazing and worth very penny
 
Lack of experience is how we get articles that picture a ferro rod with text describing (incorrectly) how to use natural flint and steel or suggesting oak, and only oak by name, for bow and drill fire-starting.
 
Is it fair to read the article in order to comment further?
 
I did. :) my comment was not intended for any of the above posts ... just wondering in general. Sorry if it appeared otherwise, Susan
 
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