Are you fed up with slob campers ?

[upnorth]

My wife absolutely refuses to go to an isolated spot when we are camping, because of bears. Even camping like this, our provincial and national parks have bear warnings now and then. And the last time we were north we heard the Conservation Officers firing off bear bangers around dusk. So I am stuck with other campers. Most of these people are decent and respectful. But I have also been in situations screaming out of our tent in the AM at some idiot splitting wood like thunder claps. Or finding that the late arrivals, long after we are set up, just came to party all night. I am sick and tired of this and I now get direct noise complaint phone numbers from the gate staff upon arrival.
Years ago we clued in that an annual provincial park pass is cheaper than always paying at the gate, so we slap on the windshield sticker. Part of the beauty of this is that if goofs start up or wont shut up we can leave without being burned for entrance fees, after the staff has gone home at 10 pm. This is thankfully a rare occurrence in the nearby park were do a day cook out\evening fire combo. I am personally tired of confrontations with pin heads outdoors. And I should not have to calculate a possible threat level to myself and wife by telling people that they are disturbing us. We bother no one and keep it low key out there. For the most part I don't even care about the whooping it up until dark, but after that it grinds me. To be fair and honest most people that we have seen camping are respectful. But that 10-15% out there only seem to be there for a bush party. The percentages may be fairly low but it only takes one group of holes to ruin a vacation. And with the price of gas, additional expenses etc., making a long trip to a semi isolated beautiful spot makes me want to go ballistic when it is selfishly messed up by others. I'm thinking that I should put the RCMP on a cell speed dial for a northern location, but the service is pretty spotty up there. So now I scout the location before registering. I suppose that this is just how it is out there in our world today.

 

[PineMartyn]

I feel your pain, upnorth.

One of the reasons why my wife and I favour backcountry camping on Crown lands instead of national and provincial parks is discourteous and inconsiderate campers. Some people are noisy, violate park rules, leave litter on campsites, trails, and portage routes. I've arrived on sites where half-eaten food was left in the fire pit (which attracts bears), sites befouled with used toilet paper because someone didn't want to use the thunderbox, discovered unused food in the thunderboxes (which again attracts bears), empty cans, bottles, cartons, broken camping chairs, torn tarps, and soiled diapers left behind, crude and unsightly camp furniture built and left standing, live trees damaged, clotheslines left behind, etc.

And of course, I've had to endure the hell of a sleepless night because the group of party animals across the lake is getting drunk and blasting music or staging their own awful little folk music festival. Some people just have no idea how noise travels across a lake.

Another pet peeve is people who think they need to 'improve' a primitive campsite. They string up clothes lines all over, and then leave the site with all this crap behind. I have canoed and backpacked to some beautiful sites that were dominated by absurdly large fire pits with enormous half-charred logs in them and around them, 3 or 4 fire grates lying about, rope and string left up from where they'd hung their wet clothes, old wet and rotting socks, not to mention unsightly and flimsy camp carpentry. When such a spot is the only suitable spot on a lake, one feels like one is moving into a dilapidated shanty, rather than camping in wilderness. How I wish that people would pack out their crap and dismantle what they build, or at least build it out of natural materials so that there aren’t rusty nails sticking out of live trees and bits of wood.

Invariably, where there are large fire pits or fire rings, the sites are beaten down to bare dirt, with all ground litter and nearby firewood having been consumed. Even in such places as Algonquin Park, which is well-maintained, it’s common to have to paddle away from one’s site and go off in search of firewood and then paddle back with it, all because people think that camping means having a large roaring fire every night.

Here’s an example of a site where my wife and I camped that had been ‘improved’ by previous campers:

Note the crude ‘table’ made by hammering a board and pieces of cut live wood into a tree. That table stank so badly of fish guts (a lure to bears) that we dismantled it and burned it right after making our supper.
Note also how the ground has been picked clean of ground litter, lacks all ground vegetation, tree roots are exposed, meaning that the site turns into a mud pit whenever it rains. Notice also the size of the fire ring in the background.

In this next photo, notice the absurdly large fire pit, the iron grate over it (one of 3 on that site), the nails in the trees from which I have hung some gear (I pulled these out when we broke camp), the abandoned and broken folding chair to my left, and on the far right you can make out part of a heavy iron table that was also abandoned. Note the complete lack of ground litter or living ground vegetation.

Sadly, sites such as these are typical of Algonquin Provincial Park, which is why I avoid camping there or in other parks.

Litter is infuriating to find in the bush and now whenever we hike, go backpacking, or canoe-tripping, we carry along one or more plastic garbage bags to pack out litter we may encounter on my way back. I’m happy to say that I don’t find much most of the time on Crown land, but there have been occasions where I have picked up entire large garbage bags full of crap left behind by inconsiderate campers and hikers.

Below are a few photos of one site we paddled by on our way home after a short 4-day canoe trip. We filled two large garbage bags on that occasion from one camping site, but even at that, we had to leave some of the garbage behind because we had no more bags and little room left in our boats. Predictably, this site was one that was accessible via motorboats and by ATV. Most backpackers and canoeists, as one would expect, do not pack in folding chairs, iron grates, nor bring lumber, tools, and nails, much less cases of beer. It never fails to amaze me that people who reach a camping spot by a motorized vehicle (and therefore didn’t have to do any heavy lifting to get their crap there) cannot be bothered to just leave with their junk.

My wife and I and our camping buddies cleaning up one such site.

It goes without saying that the vast majority of campers, especially backcountry campers, have a greater respect for nature than that and are seeking solitude and tranquility that nature offers, but one only has to be camped on the same lake as a small group of noisy, drunken, sloppy party animals to have one's enjoyment of nature made impossible and one's sleep ruined to be left regretting having having gone to a park. It's happened one time too many for me, so now I do almost all my backcountry camping on Crown lands where the likelihood of even seeing another person is almost nil and the party animals are not to be found there.

My advice to you is plan a single overnight trip to some Crown land with your wife to let her see for herself how much better an experience that can be. Bear phobia is best cured by spending time in the bush and seeing signs of bears and sighting bears and realizing how little of a problem it is. Nuisance bears are at their worst in well-established campsites where sloppy and inconsiderate campers train the bears to visit campsite and lose their natural fear of humans. We've seen plenty of bears on our Crown land canoe trips and backcountry camping and hiking trips, but never had one visit our camp.

Hope this helps,
- Martin

 

[taldesta]

Camping backcountry solo for over 30 years in the Crown lands of Muskoka and have only a voice for the peace, safety and enjoyment of those places where nature is companion and people are rare. In my experience, once an area becomes easier to access, the quality of camp enjoyment suffers. If they can back a pick-up to the shore, the bet is that the off-load of 24's will not enhance the natural experience. I cannot be the only one who knows that nature is the safest way. I have camped 23 states and across Canada a few times over, and also maintained a permanent water access camp in crown land here in Muskoka. I have seen a lot of changes that allow for road access to crown land lakes that, to me, have been disastrous for the natural enjoyment. I look for bear presence always. Rarely see signs. I am extremely cautious If I do see signs even though this is black bear country. Hey, it is safe out there. It is the best!

 

[ROCK6]

God bless you PineMartyn! We have seen crap like that but didn’t have the large garbage bag to haul it out…backpacking makes it a little more difficult. Good on you for hauling that crap out. My wife and I look for more remote places to backpack to avoid people. As long as you take care of your food, bears and other critters are less of a problem then than inconsiderate, wild, obnoxious jackasses that frequent the more populate area…heck, bare encounters are great opportunities!

ROCK6

 

[HwangJino]

My dad always scolded my mom for bringing so much trash.

as an adult I understand my dads wishes to keep a camp clean.

when camping I bring as least as possible, and brinf tough trash bags.

 

[kuuto]

Funny topic... just a few weeks ago, I decided to avoid the Provincial campgrounds for a long, long time. The noise, parties, trash, people, lack of space, etc...
People going camping to do the same crap they do at home... get drunk, listen to loud music and make a mess.... kids screaming, parents yelling at kids to stop screaming, dogs barking, car alarms going off. Toys, gear, tools, tarps, food, coolers, chairs spread all over the place. Painful to look at and listen to.

 

[Brian Andrews]

It sounds like you are in a tough spot. Campgrounds suck and are annoying. I totally agree with you there. Your wife won’t go to a more rustic place. I understand that.

All the suggestions of going more to the backcountry aren’t going to help, as you already said your wife is not willing to go. Since what you can do annoys you, don’t go anymore. It may seem like the end of the world, but it is not. Obviously, you are not getting much enjoyment out of it, so why torture yourself?

Find a different interest for you and your wife to do together, and do more rustic camping with people who like that sort of thing. It is okay for your wife to not like the kind of camping you want to do, and it is okay for you to do it without her, as long as you spend enough time together doing something, anything that you both like.

Ironically, I find campgrounds to be exactly the opposite of everything that the outdoors is The only thing they really do is to allow people to abuse nature over and over again, and just keep doing it in the same spot and therefore containing the damage. It is sad.

 

[jds1]

My wife is similarly uncomfortable with camping in remote areas, but we are both VERY sensitive to the annoyances of close quarters camping. The solution for us has been to head out "off season" when the crowds have thinned to a tolerable level. In Michigan, early Spring and late Fall give us more privacy to enjoy our favorite spots.

We also do a lot of gorilla camping in the back of our Explorer, parking on state owned land, and spend the daytime enjoying the popular areas. Some spots where we camp I just open the rear hatch and have a campfire a few feet from the tailgate.

Jeff

 

[I.N.F.K]

I went camping at a lake not to long ago, and my neighbors who were about 100 yards away were fighting all night. They woke me up at 2am bickering about something to do with the sleeping arrangements and needless to say I was pretty pissed. At another campsite they previous campers tore up the site so bad that they had to bring in an entire crew and a sand compactor. No respect

 

[Buffalohump]

You, sir, are a man after my own heart. 'Take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but your footprints', is something that was drilled into us as boy scouts!

 

[22-rimfire]

Keep it clean. Take your trash with you or burn what burns (assuming you're allowed to have a fire).

 

[BOSS1]

There are those that 'camp' to get the h*ll away from the noise, hustle/bustle/grind of daily life. They want tranquility and peace. These are the ones where its lowered respectful conversation with some good laughs around a crackling campfire when the stars come out. Good memories and shared stories. These are what I remember from being a youngster with my family seeming almost a life-time ago now.

Then there are those that mistakingly think camping is 'tailgating in the woods.' Loud, disrespectful, and basically a pain. These are the same folks that take a unhappy toddler or three to a nice adult-geared restaurant where people who've worked all week just want to sit down, turn the cell off for an a blessed hour of peace, and have a sane, calm meal and a good cup of coffee. And those types of people couldn't give a rat's a$$ about anybody else around them. These are the same kind of jackwipes that think leaving trash and beer bottles at a cite is OK. But being all 'PC,' we're forced to tolerate their actions at the expense of our own enjoyment. And there's very little you can do to wake these oblivious tools up. At best you can try and clean up after their mess, and consol yourself with the knowledge that you're 'doing your part for the environment.'

Its been some time since I've camped in a camp ground, but hopefully will be doing more in a couple years when the time is right. Hopefully I will find some quiet spots.

While its no guarantee, one step is of course to just scout your cite as best you can. Obviously picking a spot among others that appear to be fairly mellow might be better than being next to the group of 20-somethings with the 6 coolers full of beer. This might mean not taking that seclued spot that has several open cites around it because you don't know who will park next to you before the day is through. Just sayin...

And I too would not have a problem waking the park host/ranger if things weren't calming down at the normal times. I think most parks have something of an established 'quite time' after certain hours.

And FWIW, most of the campers in the Canadian park we used to frequent when I was younger were much better behaved than their sounthern counterparts...

BOSS

 

[muphasta]

heading out very soon to a campground that my wife's family has camped at going back to the 1940s, maybe earlier. We've had very good luck at this site w/quiet campers. Last year we went to Big Bear (Cali) and it seemed that every neighbor had a radio. I'm a huge music fan, as long as it is music I like, but... when I'm camping, I want to hear the birds, breeze, brooks, and other sounds of nature, not some dumb @$$es radio!

We now skip Big Bear which is about 3 hours away, and head up to Bishop Creek in the eastern Sierra Nevadas. Stream right behind the campsite, lots of space, and lots of memories from my wife's childhood. Now making similar memories for my kids.

 

[drvoxmentat]

Just got back from a little 4x4 camp in the San Juans of Colorado. Even though a popular 4x4 road went by pretty close to our camp, it was at nearly 11,000 feet in elevation which kept a lot of the wussy campers away. Had a beaver pond that my son and I yanked brookies out of every day. Our spot was well traveled, but no litter whatsoever. I've found the same experience throughout the rockies, at least Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming, which I'm most familiar with. Once you get really away from paved roads, people are pretty respectful. Yes, you'll find the random cigarette butt. otherwise, not bad. What's up with Canada, eh?

 

[Nullity]

Just got back from a little 4x4 camp in the San Juans of Colorado. Even though a popular 4x4 road went by pretty close to our camp, it was at nearly 11,000 feet in elevation which kept a lot of the wussy campers away. Had a beaver pond that my son and I yanked brookies out of every day. Our spot was well traveled, but no litter whatsoever. I've found the same experience throughout the rockies, at least Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming, which I'm most familiar with. Once you get really away from paved roads, people are pretty respectful. Yes, you'll find the random cigarette butt. otherwise, not bad. What's up with Canada, eh?

This is my experience as well. My usual camping spots have nobody nearby, so there is nobody to annoy.
Whatever the condition of the site when we arrive, we take the trash with us or burn it.
When I decide to get away, I do not want neighbors.

 

[sodak]

I'll bet if you could land a bear banger into their campfire they'd get the hint. Just kidding. Kind of.

I've had problems like this at most campgrounds as well, which is why we only remote camp to get away from the nonsense...

 

[cchu518]

The drunk partiers in a family campground happened to use a few weeks ago. The cops were called and the parties were arrested and their van towed. They must have had something very illegal on them more so than liquor. I find that way more annoying than the slovenly campers which come a close second. I try to get away from NYC and the party crowds via camping so to have it follow me is the worst.

 

[Quirt]

Need to make your wife fully aware that bears are just as likely, and perhaps even more likely to visit a public park/camp as they would a remote site. Why? Because they're acclimated to humans, are attracted by the garbage and trash laying around, and are most likely intentionally or unintentionally feed by humans.

At least in a remote area you control more of your bear destiny by applying good bear management techniques (cooking food away from sleeping area) hanging food in trees 100 + yards, excuse me, meters away et al. You can carry bear spray (I assume) and can set up a perimeter alarm either electronically or other to forewarn you when something has breached your pre defined safety boundary. They even make electric bear fences now. That way you have a few hundred meter's advance warning of something in your area before you wake up to bears entering your sleeping area. And if you really want to have some fun, camp with others you trust and set up a night watch with someone staying awake to manage the campfire and to operate as security.

 

[JV3]

that's sad to hear. you really should convince your wife to try off-trail/non-campsite camping. like others have said, there'll be more bears in designated campsites because of all that trash/food left behind compared to some random area in the woods.

 

[TwinStick]

This whole thread is just sad. Sad that this crap even happens. I have seen it also. Watched people chop down live trees, reported it, then the park ranger punishes US , by telling the perps who turned them in !!! I said to this fine fellow "Thanks, thanks for ruining our week of camping" & then went on to tell him he has no business being in law enforcement if that is what he does. We had nothing but problems the rest of the week. Flat tire on truck when we came back from a bike ride, loud music, hollering, screaming---all after 10 pm quiet time, beer cans being thrown at our camper in the middle of the night. I wanted my money back but that didn't happen. They left the same day we did & thier campsite was a disaster. I asked if they had a policy of refusing to let people camp when they acted like that & destroyed their campsite ? They said no. :thumbdn: