Army & Navy Co-operative Society Sportsman's Knife

S

Shannon8

Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
9
Hi folks, looking for info on my Great-Grandfather's 15 blade/tool Sportsman's Knife such as approx. age & contract cutler who made the knife for Army & Navy Co-operative Society Ltd. (A&N CSL).

https://goo.gl/photos/aHxjVXPoQWtECDtZ7

Has anyone seen this knife pictured in old A&N CSL catalogs or anywhere? I've read that this Dept. Store was in buisiness under this name from 1871-1934 when the name changed to "Army & Navy Store LTD." so it seems that '34 would be the latest it could've been produced given that eight of the blades are etched with "A&N CSL" and an "N" on the tangs. As you can see in the second image, the "N" appears to be a distinctive logo with three serifs, two being extra long. I wonder about the significance of the "N" since I've also read that "most of A&N's knives were made by Sheffield's Joseph Rodgers & Sons but wonder if the individual "N" marked tangs could be Maker's Marks for cutlers such as:
-Robert Needham ca. 1893?;
-William Needham 1891-1920?;
-Needham Bros (later owned by Slaters) 1851-1940's?;
-T B Needham 1856-79 (later NVT) N V T 1879-1975?
-John Nowill & Son?...etc...

Anyway, perhaps some pictured design elements can aid someone in maker identification, such as the double curvature of the bolsters or the bail design where it attaches to the rivet etc.

SPECS:

Approx. Closed Dimensions:
1-1/4" x 1-1/2" x 5-9/16" long or 6-3/8" long with bail extended.

Kidd Leather Knife Pouch/Purse with Nickel Steel Hinged Clasp measures 1-9/16" wide x 5-3/4" long.

-Checkered Buffalo Horn Scales;

-Four Rivets (w/ one Bullseye Rivet);

-Nickel Steel Oval Shield/Escutcheon;

-Filed/Milled/Knurled Brass Liners;

-Filed/Milled/Knurled Steel Dividers;

-NS Decorative Bearded Bolsters;

-NS Decorative Bail;

...and the following 15 blades/tools:

-1) MASTER KNIFE Blade, LOCKBACK, .1360" thick x 5/8" wide x 3-13/16" long, marked "A&N CSL" on blade face & "N" on tang, large milled/knurled lockback release button;

-2) PEN KNIFE Blade, 2-1/4" long, tang marked "A&N CSL" on Mark Side & "N" on Pile Side;

-3) PEN KNIFE Blade, 1-3/4" long, tang marked "A&N CSL" on Mark Side & "N" on Pile Side;

-4) Combo. SAW, with HOOK DISGORGER, 11/32" wide x 4-1/4" long, tang marked "A&N CSL" on Mark Side & "N" on Pile Side;

-5) LEATHER STITCHER, with .077" hole & .092" x .345" rectangular opening, 7/16" wide x 4-1/4" long, tang marked "A&N CSL" on Mark Side & "N" on Pile Side;

-6) Combo. CHISEL BLADE/PRY TOOL (tapered to thin edge) & BEVEL FILE, 17/32" wide x 2" long, marked "A&N CSL" on blade face & "N" on tang;

-7) CORKSCREW, 1-7/8" long, visible tang edge filed/milled/knurled;

-8) MANICURE BLADE, pointed & two sided, flat file on one side & other side has two nail file channels, 5/16" wide x 2-7/8" long, tang marked "A&N CSL" on Mark Side & "N" on Pile Side;

-9) GIMLET/DRILL, tapers from .1225" to .1395" diameter x 2-11/32" long, visible tang edge filed/milled/knurled;

-10) LARGE AWL/REAMER/LEATHER PUNCH, 3 sided, 5/16" wide x 2-5/32" long;

-11) GAITOR-GLOVE HOOK/HOOP PICK, 2-1/8" long, 15/32" diameter, tang marked "A&N CSL" on Mark Side & "N" on Pile Side;

-12) Pull-Out TWEEZERS with Integral Pivot-Out Riveted PICKER, 5/32" wide x 2-11/16" long;

-13) Pull-Out NEEDLE, tapers from a point to about .0725 dia. x 4-3/16" long;

-14) Pull-Out Tool, End slot about 3/32" x 1/4" wide;

-15) Pull-Out Tool. End slot about 3/32" x .3225" wide.

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
I pulled this out of the "Sheffield, Golden Age thread." I think this question will get better visibility in its own thread.
 
Beautiful knife. It looks familiar to me, perhaps one of our esteemed members has one similar? How about posting some better pics in the thread? Could certainly be a Joseph Rodgers made knife. I've also had knife purses like that with Rodgers' knives.
 
Shannon your knife is evidently more intricate,but this is a cut from an A N store. It shows some similar patterns and a pruning knife ,which I collect.

I don't remember who sent it to me,but I'm pretty sure from the UK(Steve or Mick).

AN9.jpg
 
If I were laying down a bet I would go Joseph Rodgers. Certainly a gorgeous piece. Pretty high end. Not sure about the N mark. I have some references I will check. As a side note it very much reminds me of a Mappin & Webb as well.
 
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In fact it belongs to our friend Mick Wellington. Probably a pic or two if you search here :thumbup:

EDIT - Actually, what do you know, it's the very first knife posted in the original thread! :D - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Made-in-Sheffield-quot-1830-1930-A-golden-age

wellington said:
Over the next few weeks I thought, if there was some interest, I would post pictures of one or two vintage Sheffield knives, mostly made in the era before mechanization and mass production.

I would like to show this pristine sportsman's knife made by W Morton & Sons, Sheffield , C 1880 ?, the knife measures 4 1/4" closed, the pocket blade measures 3" (the pile side of which is faintly inscribed with a salesmans pattern number "D 7455 245").

DSC02799-1.jpg

DSC02798-1.jpg

DSC02802-2.jpg

DSC02800-1-1.jpg

DSC02801-1.jpg

DSC02809-1.jpg
DSC02810-1.jpg


If anyone has a knife they would like to show on this thread, you are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Mick :)
Click to expand...
 
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Many thanks for your time & expertise everyone. Yes I originally posted in that thread partially due to the general similarity of that William Morton & Sons knife but I wasn't sure since there are many differences such as tang, bolster & bail designs etc...

Does anyone have access to the book "Sheffield Exhibition Knives" (Claussen, Watts, McMickle)? I read that there were similar knives under the heading Showpiece Fishing Knives...

Hoped to find a match to the distinctive three-serifed "N" tang logo in the Sheffield Silvermaker's database but found none:

http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/Sheffield-N.html

No eBook yet so next time I'm in NYC I'll have to check out the Metropolitan Museum of Art's Watson Library which has the 1907 A&N CSL 1282 pg. Catalog (reprinted in 1969):

https://books.google.com/books/about/Yesterday_s_Shopping_the_Army_Navy_Store.html?id=RIFuQgAACAAJ

Added more pics to the gallery:

https://goo.gl/photos/aHxjVXPoQWtECDtZ7

Many thanks again!
 
Fantastic old knife and quite possibly made on contract by Thomas Turner in the early 1900s. Enclosed is a picture from a 1907 Army & Navy store catalog with similar examples.


 
Wow, that's a great looking knife.

Not to derail the thread but is there anyone who makes knives like this these days besides the few Boker folding hunter models and Victorinox Swiss army knives?
 
Jack Black said:
Would it be possible to just post them in the thread? Maybe turn the 'flash' off too? :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Yeah, wish I could post pics here but (newbie) forum instructions say
"You may not post attachments"

BTW, this knife isn't shown in "Sheffield Exhibition Knives" or 1907 & 1934 Army & Navy CSL Catalogs though there's a supplemental Catalog showing Army & Navy CSL's full knife line to hunt down.,.

Anyone got a herringbone corkscrew for sale? Ha, it works fine but just thought I'd ask...
 
ptradeco said:
Not sure about the N mark. I have some references I will check.
Click to expand...

DOH!!! I just realized that the distinctive three-serifed "N" tang etching is the same font design as the "N" used in the "A & N CSL" blade etchings...see last pic of master blade etching showing both blade & tang matching N's:
https://goo.gl/photos/aHxjVXPoQWtECDtZ7

Ha, I was thinking perhaps the tang "N" was the original manufacturer trying to get a little free advertising but, since it's the same font design, now I'm thinking the tang "N" simply denotes "Navy"...hmmm wonder if A & N sold an Army pattern and a Navy pattern...but if that were true and this was a "Navy pattern" it should have a marlin spike!
 
Shannon8 said:
Yeah, wish I could post pics here but (newbie) forum instructions say
"You may not post attachments".
Click to expand...

You can post code from an image-hosting account (Photobucket, etc) :thumbup:
 
Jack Black said:
You can post code from an image-hosting account (Photobucket, etc) :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Plz forgive my ignorance but isn't my Google Photo link from an online image-hosting account? How does it differ from Photobucket? Anyway, ppl without gmail or google accounts are telling me that my A & N knife album link brings them right to the pictures without further action/requirements, no gmail registration etc...
 
Google does not format the link properly for the forum software to pick it up and display it in the thread.

When asking for assistance, it sometimes helps to make things as easy for those from whom you wish aid as possible. This is particularly true for those possible helpers who post via phone, as many of our forumites do. Much easier for them to see a photo in the post.
 
knarfeng said:
When asking for assistance, it sometimes helps to make things as easy for those from whom you wish aid as possible. This is particularly true for those possible helpers who post via phone, as many of our forumites do. Much easier for them to see a photo in the post.
Click to expand...

Absolutely :thumbup: I suspect some members may be wary of visiting a link posted by a new member. I'm on my phone PC, but have a slow internet connection, and found the link site problematic, with only a couple of the photos displaying. Posting photos here allows knives to be compared directly, rather than having to flit between tabs. If you post pics of your knife - preferably ones without so much glare - you may get other responses from members here :thumbup:
 
Roger that.
BTW, my A & N CSL knife was indeed made by Joseph Rodgers. The first responder over at British Blades has the identical pattern knife marked Joseph Rodgers throughout.
 
Very interesting sir, you certainly have something to treasure there whoever it was made by :thumbup:

For the benefit of other posters, here's a pic of the similar knife with Joseph Rodgers tang-stamps:

2w5licw.jpg
 
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