Array of questions: liners, leather cutting, bolsters, acid etching, peening pins

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Aug 26, 2013
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I've only made a handful of knives now but have a few questions and figured I'd just consolidate them into 1 thread. I didn't want to asking something that's been asked 1000 times on here already so I've tried searching the boards, read through all of the newbie threads, watched every knife making video known to man online(well maybe not all of them but I'm getting close). Even then I know all of these things have probably been covered a bunch.

Liners- I did my first knife with liners and just put the liners on when I assembled the entire handle. It actually worked ok and looks fine but was a terrible mess trying to epoxy the tang and the liners and scales all at once. Plus I had micarta bolsters which made it more difficult making a 6 piece epoxy sandwich. So when doing a handle with bolsters(obviously not metal bolsters) and liners is it best to make the fit between bolster and scale perfect and just glue them both together on the liner and then treat the whole thing as one piece once it dries? That way you would drill pin holes, shape the front of the bolsters etc after everything is laminated to the liners?

Acid etching- I acid etched the entire blade and tang of one knife before assembly of the handle. Once I finished the handle all of the exposed tang was sanded to satin finish while the blade was etched. This leaves a kind of awkward transition line from etched blade to polished/sanded tang. How do you typically address this? You could sand the spine or add a resist to the spine during etching but that just seem like it might look weird but it would give it a uniform look all the way down the spine. I know the answer is probably try different ways and see what I like but my knife making process takes so long I wanted to get input from other to see how they think it looks best.

This is kind of a dumb question but I used nail polish for a resist and was curious if the expensive nail polish works better than the cheap stuff. I used the .99 stuff and the etching seemed to creep under the edges of the polish so the lines weren't very crisp. Does the expensive stuff stick better and make a better resist? Btw, my wife has been giving me a really hard time for how much time I spent shopping for nail polish, nail polish remover, nail polish paint brushes etc;). Or is there something better than nail polish to use as a resist?

Brass rod test- at what point do you do the brass rod test? Do you sharpen the blade right after heat treat, do the test and then grind the sharpened edge back down and finish the sanding etc if it passes? I've been waiting to profile the edge and sharpen the blade until after final handle and blade finishing but at that point it's kind of too late for the brass rod test because you can't take it all apart if it fails. I'm using 1084 heat treating in a propane forge with a muffle pipe and so far have just been testing for hardness with a file after HT but want to add more testing measures to make sure my blades are coming out ok.

Peening pins- do you peen the pins during handle assembly while epoxy is still wet or can you wait until after it dries? I've tried doing it wet and used the work surface on the back of the vise to do it on but again it makes a huge mess with epoxy oozing out everywhere. Maybe I just need to come to terms with it always being a huge sticky mess when assembling handle? Or maybe I'm using too much epoxy which is causing the mess?

Leather cutting- I was curious what everyone uses for cutting and trimming leather when making sheaths and what you found the ideal type of knife to do it would be if you were to make one just for that purpose? I've made leather sheaths for 2 knives now but am not satisfied with what I've tried using to cut/trim leather. I used a utility knife I made but the blade seems to be too thick and the grind isn't ideal. I've also used a box cutter but a) I don't really like that it seems kind of flemsy b) if I'm making a nice custom knife I don't want to be using a $5 box cutter in the process. I'd rather make a nice tool/knife myself to use in my leather work. I mean I actually made myself 2 little knives simply for the purpose of cutting strips of sand paper so why not make one for cutting leather. I was thinking a small Wharncliffe style blade, very thin and razor sharp with a chisel grind might work really well or maybe some type of kiridashi? I've never used either one of those types of knives though.
 
Wow, lots of questions.

Here's my input:

Liners: Generally, the bolsters should be attached to the tang (pins) before trying to attach the scales/spacers/etc. Then the rest of the process will be a bit of a mess, as you have discovered. You may be using too much epoxy. Use latex gloves to keep your hands relatively clean. Keep acetone at your side, to wipe and clean excess epoxy from the knife after assembly.

Peening pins: Peen the pins while the epoxy is un-cured. You may want to very lightly clamp the scales and tang in a vise to squeeze excess epoxy from the assembly, wipe up the excess with an acetone soaked cloth, then peen the pins. Clean work surfaces and hammer handles when done peening

Leather cutting: There a many different knives used to cut leather. You'll get many different replies for this question, but I've found that a quality utility knife with a new blade is my method of choice.
 
I've done 3 peened pins and did them after the epoxy dried.
Don't epoxy the pin, just the handle material.
Dome one side of the pin before putting it in place, then dome the other side.
I want to make a proper jig but for now this worked for me:
Get a paint stirring stick and cut of two pieces. Apply a piece of masking tape to one of them and put them together with the tape in the middle.
Drill a hole the diametre of your pin, and remove the tape.
Put in the pin with app. 1/2 the diametre proud of the stick and put the sticks together.
Now put them in a drill press clamp (or vice).
Because of the tape the hole will me slightly smaller then the pin, and it will hold the pin while you dome the first side

Use a thin knife to cut your leather.
 
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Liners: I epoxy up the liners and the handle material together and when they are try I then take them(one solid piece at this point) and then epoxy it to the tang. Makes it a two step process but (to me) it is less messy/frustrating.
 
Look up "head knife" for leather. I've been cutting leather for the last few days and have used a few different blades. I have a small production wharncliffe folder that does really well, but I definitely plan on making one for this purpose. Your idea of a small wharncliffe is right imo, just make it ergonomic. Really, the only bit that matters is the first inch or two, but that's up to you. A shorter blade won't lever against you as much as a longer one.

Mine will be a comfortable "three finger" affair with a blade about two inches long. It'll be made of thin 1095 and (hopefully) pretty hard. The tip does the main cutting, while the edge beyond that is used for draw cutting the slit for the times when the tip doesn't fully penetrate the hide. Why do I feel like I'm writing something dirty... :D

The rest I'll leave to the experienced makers.
 
Round knife or head knife for leather. Terms are kinda interchangeable. Little bit of learning curve using one but once you got it down you will never look back. They have been used in leather work for centuries and for a reason, they work. Osborne makes a decent one. About $60, Jantz has em in their catalog. They are superb for cutting curves. The smaller straight knives like a little wharnie are called cut off knives or trimming knives. Usually have two round knives and two cutoff knives hanging around the bench.
 
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thanks for the input guys. I found a video from USAknifemaker talking about different leather knives that was helpful too. Looks like I need one of those round knives and I'm still going to make a small wharncliffe style for leather cutting too.

Last night I successfully glued up liners(2 layers), wood scales, black micarta bolsters with liner/spacer between scale and bolster into one beautiful slab of handle material. I must say that was 10 times easier and cleaner to do than trying to do it all while assembling the entire handle, adding pins etc and makes for a much cleaner finish between parts. I was worried about getting a snug fit between bolster and scales but it worked out just fine.

now then I should have done a little research about this toxic poisonous wood(Tamboti) I'm using for the handle before I started. After doing a little shaping on the grinder I read that it can cause blindness, diarrhea, and other sicknesses:( Luckily I'm giving this one to my little brother and I'm willing to risk it with him.
 
I just noticed that the liner material(thin red G10) that I put between the micarta bolsters and the wood scales apparently floated up about 3/32" while the epoxy was curing so now I have an epoxy filled gap below the liner. It floated up about the same amount on both handle slabs. When I clamped everything together I didn't put anything on these pieces of liner to hold them down and never thought they would move up in the epoxy like that with them being sandwiched pretty tight between the other pieces.

liner_zps1f2e1999.jpg
 
Oh that sucks... Next time try regular CA to put those together. It works well and, as you know, has almost no curing time. Of course you'll still want to clamp them, but I'll always use CA for that kinda work over epoxy.

Round knife or head knife for leather. Terms are kinda interchangeable. Little bit of learning curve using one but once you got it down you will never look back. They have been used in leather work for centuries and for a reason, they work. Osborne makes a decent one. About $60, Jantz has em in their catalog. They are superb for cutting curves. The smaller straight knives like a little wharnie are called cut off knives or trimming knives. Usually have two round knives and two cutoff knives hanging around the bench.

Oh what do you know Dave? :D Actually, I guess you know more than I do since you taught me most of what I know. ;)

Btw, those round knives that you're making, are those both for you, or are you selling them?
 
Hey Strig, yeah one is for me and the other is for a buddy. Its part of a trade, he's making me some tapaderos for my saddle. I used mine for about 4 hours yesterday. email sent.
 
so CA is ok for just the piece between the bolster and scale or for the entire assembly of liners, scales, bolsters? Obviously i'm new to this but I didn't think you should use it for bonding handle materials together.
Also, I've never used anything other than whatever you can buy at Home Depot or Walmart etc. Is there a really good brand/type of CA that I should try for this type of work?

I've been using System 3 T88 epoxy which I've been happy with. I started with Gorilla 5 min epoxy but after reading a lot on here quickly changed to T88 and now after a lot more reading it seems like most people like the G flex or Acraglass stuff even better so I may try those out too.
 
I use it for glueing liners to handle materials. I have never had a problem in that application. I like the Gorilla Glue Ca. All may not be lost on your project there. I had that happen not to long ago. I was able to use a pointy Exacto blade and dig the epoxy out. Then I fashioned a small piece of liner material to fit in there. Drop of Ca and tapped that little piece of liner in. Hit it with the accelerator and then ground it down. I know it's there and I can't see it. Went ahead and finished out the knife and still can't see it. The deal seems to be to shape your liner plug as close to the hole it goes to fit in as close as possible.
 
G-Flex is the best I've found after 15 years of making and trying just about everything under the sun including Accuglass. You want a Slow cure epoxy of at least 30 minutes. they bond better and if toy have more that two parts it will give you time to move things around.

I butter each piece up and then put it on after doing a trail fit of all the parts at least twice.
I always shape the front of the bolsters or handle before I epoxy things together. You don't want to have to go in there next to the finished blade.
 
some wood dust can be poitionous, but it is better to not get any dust in your longs at all.
I always wear a respirator when I work with wood. Even when hand sanding. I forget that I am wearing it after a while.
Just to be save
 
peen after the glue is dry. Taper the hole from top to bottom with a tapered reamer. This will let the handle material at least under the surface have less stress and reduce cracking. Always peen / glue is temporary!
 
so CA is ok for just the piece between the bolster and scale or for the entire assembly of liners, scales, bolsters? Obviously i'm new to this but I didn't think you should use it for bonding handle materials together.
Also, I've never used anything other than whatever you can buy at Home Depot or Walmart etc. Is there a really good brand/type of CA that I should try for this type of work?

I've been using System 3 T88 epoxy which I've been happy with. I started with Gorilla 5 min epoxy but after reading a lot on here quickly changed to T88 and now after a lot more reading it seems like most people like the G flex or Acraglass stuff even better so I may try those out too.

CA has its places, and one of them is between scale materials. Fiddleback uses it between liners and iirc, haven't had a failure in over 4000 knives.

EvvTjuc.jpg


Two liners under that g10.

But don't take my word for it. Whip up a couple of scale material stamps and glue em together. Then beat the hell out of them. If you're like me, you'll be plenty happy with the results. ;)
 
Great I'll give it a try. I'm all for faster and less messy.
I love the look of those two knives.

Thanks again for all of the advice. This is a great community.
 
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