Arrgh, I'm going nuts!!!...Starmate or BM 710 axis...

I know you already narrowed it down, but I'd get the new Lightfoot LCC from Microtech. It's only pennies more $. They just became available so I don't know if you weighed this into your already good finalist selection. I am a Benchmade fan, but the LCC's are a notch above...
 
Paracelsus,

My statement was a bit ambiguous. I meant to say the BM 710 Axis is available in straight-edge only, AS WELL AS PARTLY SERRATED.

Not that the 710 Axis was ONLY available in half serrated.

I apologize for any confusion.

Damn, English semantics!



[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 08-30-2000).]
 
Flood,
I will defend the Starmate though I like my BM 710 very much. Yes, all 710 advantages mentioned here are truth, I could add better concealability (sits lower in the pocket and has mat-black clip) and I like sabre grind over hollow one for most utility tasks.

But to make your choice even harder
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I will tip also Starmate's advantages over BM 710:
* Lighter (slightly) weight and thinner package.
* Blade without recurve is easier to sharpen.
* I like SPYDERCO round opening hole over thumb stud even if this last is ambidextrous and placed as comfortably to operate as it is done on 710.
* I like Starmate's tip-down carry over tip-up in case of 710.

It is really unfeasible task to tip the best knife between these two, I'm afraid you are doomed to buy both
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I have both. I like axis lock but don't like many other aspects in BM 710. When I got it it was not sharp enough and the factory bevel wa too dull. I lowered bevels (took two hours) and it was sharp. After a couple of weeks I noticed lateral blade play. Now (If I use it as a daily carry) I'll have to tighten the pivot every week(yes I could use locktite but I shouldn't have to). I don't like recurved blades wery much as it makes the sharpening harder. This said I like it's g-10 (contrary to many other who think that its too slippery) as it doesn't eat my pockets as fast as the usual grade g-10. I also like its tip over starmates tip as it is pointier.

Starmate had definitely better quality in out of box condition and has kept that better overall quality. But I'm not so fond of hollow grinds (especially in this knife which has thicker blade than most) as it makes whittling harder.

I can't make difference between handle confort because they differ so much.

This all said I'd have hard time to decide wich one to pick if I'd have to limit myself to one. I'd probably end to buy smate as I fell that it is safer in pocket. Small difference to base knife buy but mate would be my choice.
 
I agree that 710 is an excellent knife, but the couple ones i've handled had some lock sticking problems. After a hard flick, the lock stuck and require 2 fingers hard pulling to release it again. Am i the only one had this kind of problem??
 
That lock-sticking problem happens with a brand new 710 before you lube it. It'll be gone in a day--it's just not an issue.
I own the 710 plain-edge and I've handled the Starmate. I like Spyderco knives (I own a Calypso Jr. and it's great) but there's just no comparison here. By virtue of the lock alone (and I personally think a knife is more than just the lock), the 710 wins. Liner locks have always been a little silly, in that they solve problems that don't exist, but now there's just no point at all.
One of my favorite things about the 710 is that it's an amazingly SAFE knife. It's like the Glock pistol of folders--powerful but brilliantly safe. Unlike the Starmate, the 710 will close itself if you bump it open (a centimeter or an inch, for that matter). But unlike a lockback, which also closes itself, the Axis opens like butter any way you do it.
I also have a problem with the recessed (read: nonexistent) liners in the Starmate and Military. G10 is strong but I'm much happier carrying a knife that doesn't rely on plastic for structural integrity. In fact, I'd certainly have a Military already if it had a real lock and real liners.
The ONE issue I've had with my 710 concerns sharpness. I had to send it back to Benchmade to fix the grinds--which they did for free, and perfectly, paying for my postage as well. Remember, a Starmate will need some edge help after you use it too.
Frankly, the only liner-lock knife I'd buy now is the Spydie Bob Lum, which I handled when I played with the Starmate. It's just so damn cool-looking and smooth! And titanium beats plastic in my book.
Get the 710 plain-edge.
 
Hmmm... about that fear of chipping.... yeah, I've chipped mine. A couple of tiny chips near the tip. Each probably about 0.2mm or less. The way I chipped it was drilling/hogging out a hole in the sheet metal of my Jeep! With only minor chipping to show for it, I think Benchmade's ATS-34 is tough enough for me. And the M2 steel is even tougher.

Go for the 710. You won't get that kind of performance out of the Starmate, IMO. And, remember this: I'm a big Spyderco fan. But not a fanatic.

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iktomi
 
Wow, you guys have been so cooperative, I'm really glad I started this thread. First time I get so many replies! I guess people really feel strongly about these two excellent knives, and with good reason.

Arguments for or against have been rock-solid. I'm aware that most people favor the BM 710, yet I really admire that those who defend it also criticized its blade-shape or sharpness out of the box. Now THAT's constructive criticism. Point out the positives and negatives, even if you are in favor of that knife. Same with Starmate arguments which, even if few were made in favor of it, were extremely helpful and well-informed.

I must admit, that I was always thinking of getting the Starmate until I discovered the BM 710. What can you say? Excellent handle, nice blade shape, slightly longer and of course the ever-dependable axis lock. HOWEVER, I ended up choosing the Starmate for several reasons.

First, many of you pointed out some quality problems with the BM right out of the box: blade sharpness and grinding. These seem to be some quality problems that BM faces at its factory, and I like my knives to be perfect out of the box. For example, ralph(ralphtt) stated:

***Sold the 710 because of the lousy blade grinds. Still wasn't really sharp even after being returned to Benchmade for re-sharpening. No problem with the Starmate. Came sharp and no cosmetic or other quality problems which are so evident with some recent Benchmade production. If you do buy a 710, ask the dealer to closely inspect it for you. Even then, you run a risk of having to return it to get a quality product. JMHO.***

Maybe Spyderco has faced these problems too, but so far their track record has been perfect with my knives. For me, overall quality out of the box is of paramount importance, and have no desire to send it back to production for whatever reason. I find ludicrous the fact that I would have to put some "elbow grease", as J D Wijbenga put it, to a knife which is supposed to be in pristine condition.

Second, I must say that the Spyderco looks like it will be more comfortable in my pocket than the BM, since its handle is flatter. Pocket-comfort for me is a must. I must admit that I prefer BM's lower-carry, but in the end I guess I don't mind it as much.

Third, I sincerely like CMP440V a bit better than ATS-34, due to its more corrosion-resistant ability and easier sharpening. I'm not really keen on M-2 knives, since even if their toughness is getting to be quite legendary, their corrosion resistance is low, and I live on an island (Puerto Rico) where salty environment situations could come up. I just really would rather not worry about coating problems and prefer a more traditional "stainless" steel. Also, when it comes to Spyderco knives, I really don't have to worry about knife-edges being and staying hair-popping sharp.

The lock issue, of course, is the most controversial. Why choose a linerlock, which is more prone to failure and obviously less strong than an Axis lock? I'll admit that the Starmate fails here. However, I trust Spyderco liner-locks...best made in the business, from what I've gathered, and I've handled them myself and sincerely doubt that the knife will fail on me through normal or even tough use.

Looking at the knives side-by-side on the internet is a very tortuous task. They are both so pretty, look so competent. I think I will eventually "upgrade" to an axis lock. Personally, I like the aesthetics on the Starmate over the BM, but the BM is definitely on the top of my list for future purchases. I'm not undermining it...I'm just saying that, as a purchase I would make in the present, the Starmate just "feels right" at the moment. Plus, this could be a compliment to the BM, since I respect it enough to be sure to acquire it in the future. Just picture it...first Starmate, then BM Axis, and finally Sebenza!(I've always said, a man can dream, can't he?)
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Thank you all very much. Your help has been nothing short of amazing.

-Flood
 
In all fairness, those of us singing the praises of the 710 probably should have pointed out earlier that BM, for some reason, prefers to ship their knives with an edge profile that definitely favors durability over ease of cutting. There's no denying that. But, I don't think this represents a legitimate reason not to purchase one. As my sharpening skills have improved I've taken to thinning out the edge profiles of almost all of my knives, Sebenza and Whitewing included! I'm not sure what ralphtt plans to do when his Starmate finally gets dull, but for me, learning how to resharpen a blade to meet my specific needs has been half the fun of this hobby
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.

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Get the 710.

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"I'm out there Jerry, and I'm lovin' every minute of it!"--Kramer
 
Get the StarMate. It is far and away my favorite folder. The Spyderco liner locks, as used on the StarMate and the Military, are as close to foolproof as you can get, the CPM440V blade is sharp and stays sharp as H**l, it cuts like a demon, the knife fits my hand as if it were custom made for me, it opens and closes as smoothly as it possibly could, and it looks aesthetically very good, except for the damned black G10 scales. I would LOVE navy blue or maroon or some other option. All in all, I would rate the StarMate as the functional equal of the Sebenza, but a 1/3 the price.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 08-31-2000).]
 
Bronco . . . When the Starmate gets dull, I'll sharpen the damn thing.
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Have had to completely re-profile the edge on every Benchmade I have owned and usually do that on a diamond Lansky system. Even then, it's too much work and I just won't add any more Benchmade knives to the collection. Works for me.
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ralph
 
Ralph,
My apologies as I'm afraid I may have overstated my point a bit
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.

As I alluded to above, I derive a fair amount of pleasure from setting up the Edge Pro in front of the TV set and putting a razor edge (or as near as I can get
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) on one of my knives while watching a good college football game. If this were not the case, however, then I'm sure I too would be more frustrated with the out-of-the-box edge that arrives on a new BM knife.

But for one who doesn't mind spending a little time with the stones, I feel that ignoring all the positive attributes of the 710HS, solely on account of an obtuse edge geometry, is too much akin to throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Bronco . . . no harm, no foul.
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Like you, I take pride in putting a nice edge on a knife, but really don't enjoy having to completely re-profile an edge on a NEW knife.

Guess the point I was making is that the Starmate comes nice & sharp. However, my experience with recent Benchmades indicates you may or may not get a sharp knife. And the recurve on the 710 does require a bit more attention to detail as the knife approaches a satisfactory level of sharpness. To me it's not worth the hassle . . . YMMV.
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ralph
 
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