asking advice so I dont screw up

Justin.Mercier

Justin.Mercier

Joined
Oct 21, 2006
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The search function isnt working at all for me though I do know some of these questions have been answered elsewhere.

I'm working on finishing up a sgian dubh which is made out of some cable damascus I made.

I want to put a bone handle topped with a section of wood (and a copper spacer) on the blade. is the same epoxy i'd use to hold the stick tang in the bone what would hold the wood and copper properly layered above the bone and on the knife? I've seen a lot of handles with bone and wood, but havnet been able to find any tutorials on how to stick them together right.

Next, for filing in the spine scalloping, is there any particular brand of files that last really well? And should i do the filework before or after heat treating the blade? I'm not sure if theyd cause stress that could make the blade warp when quenching.

lastly.. heat treating cable damascus, what would i best treat it like? Normalize it a couple times, quench in oil, temper at 400 for an hour 3 times?


Sorry for all the questions at once, but I really want to finish this knife (my 2nd) before the hammerin up at Wulf's =D

http://www.tharkis.com/images/cabledamascus2.jpg
 
good luck on find tutorials on hidden tang knives. I've looked for the longest time, here, google, what ever and haven't found a one that says "this is what you do and why". If you find one please tell me
 
i plan on making a few elk antler handle knives with hidden tangs. i have made quite a few in the past and after getting back into making knives, i had a customer want a hidden tang knife but with a piece of mule deer antler. i have a small knife that i started but havent finished yet that i can take pictures of to show you how i put mine together. i also have pictures of other knives with hidden tang antler handles i could send anyone wishing to see.
 
Use the same quality epoxy for all three.

Nicholson chainsaw files. They're harder than normal round files. Look around and you can find them in 1/4, 3/16, 5/32, 1/8. Try Ace hardware. Bigger scallops, use half-round files.

File before HT. After, you'll need diamond files or carbide burs.

If it's XX Improved Plow cable (1095), expect some carbon loss so HT as 1084.
 
Here is a procedure for doing a compound top for a sgian dubh.
Take the top piece, the spacer, and the handle. Grind/sand them to approx. the desired shape. Sand mating surfaces to 100 grit. Drill 2 to 4 ,1/16" holes in the spacer... positioned so they will end up about 1/4" from the final edge (adjust the number and position of holes as needed for the shape you are doing). Glue the spacer to the top piece with a dot or two of cyanoacrylic - USE JUST ENOUGH TO GET IT TO STAY ON FOR DRILLING. Now,drill into the top about 1/4-3/8" . Try to make the holes as perpendicular as possible. Make an index mark on the top and spacer with a white marker, or a scribe. Once the top is drilled, give the spacer a quick rap with a wooden mallet (on the side) and it should pop right off. Glue it onto the handle with a good grade of slow cure epoxy.When gluing, be sure to position it, using the mark, so it is in the proper orientation. When dry, drill the holes into the handle about 3/8-1/2" deep. Cut some pin stock to fit in the holes (not too snug, you want them to be a bit loose) and trim them so the top goes on and sits flush. Drill out any holes that are too tight with a slightly larger drill bit. Once the assembly is fitted properly, fill the holes with glue, rough the pin surfaces with 60 grit paper, and glue the whole thing together with good epoxy. Finish shaping the top and handle, drill the handle to fit the tang, and glue up the knife.
Hope this helps.
Stacy Elliott Apelt, FSA, Scot
 
Thank you very much for the help Stacy. That's a way of doing it that I dont think i'd have thought of myself, but which makes a lot of sense =)
 
justin, do you plan on milling or filing a shoulder on each side of the tang to hide the tang slot in the spacer? this will make for a cleaner look.
 
Oh forgot to say thanks fitzo too =)

Richard J. I'm going to /try/ to do that, i dont have all the tools i need to do a lot of htat stuff, but i'm going ot try to carve out a very small slot in the top of the spacer so the blade recesses just a hair to make it look cleaner, if that's what you're meaning
 
Lehp! i think i screwed up... =/ I hardened my blade after normalizing 3 times and then quenching in oil, file skated off it, everything seemed fine. The scale all popped off nicely even.

Stuck it in the toaster oven (with some fire bricks) at 400 2x for an hour.. and then noticed that there's a very slight curve to one side in the blade, small enough to not notice it after the quench, but there none the less....

Is there /anything/ i can do to fix the blade now? or do i pray that the curve is small enough that my final grinding is enough to neutralize it?

http://www.tharkis.com/images/cabledamascus1.jpg
 
Nice looking blade. If it doesn't seem much, just leave it. Some might come out when you sand the blade .

You can re-temper at 425F, and while still hot, try to straighten it. It has some risk, but usually works.

I usually just re-normalize it, straighten it, and re-do the HT. That is the safest and best choice.
Stacy
 
Advice so you don't screw up, eh? lets see...........wear a condom and make sure she signs a pre-nup. Oops!!!! Sorry......that's my pathology:D Do the heat treat over again. I have messed up a couple of VERY nice blades trying to avoid doing that. You will only end up more frustrated.
 
Seems like it wasnt as bad as i feared it was. Looks like i should be able to get it out with a liberal application of elbow grease. I do all my flat ground sanding on a glass table with the paper on top so that I can get perfectly level, and from the high spot on one side and the corresponding low on the other, it appears that if i sand a little extra that I'll be able to 'pull' the tip back the fraction of a milimeter it needs when I'm putting the final edge on it.


What grit should I sand to before etching for the best results? I like a strong etch (so that it looks sort of like my picture above, which was how it looked comming out of the quench with the scale blown off)
 
sand to 400, deep etch, finish sanding to final grit, give a final etch, touch up with the finest grit.
Stacy
 
12 hours of hand sanding later, i'm at 150 grit without any curve in the blade anymore, phew !

the edge on the blade is a little more htan half a milimeter in width. Has anyone done a sgian dubh before, because I've never seen one with an actual edge (just dress 'knives') should i go from there to a secondary bevel for the edge, or continue down with a continuous edge all the away from the spine till sharp? will take more time to sand down that extra metal for a single edge, but I think it might look better.
 
The origional purpose of a Sgian Dubh was as a "Honour" or "Mercy" knife. the dirk was a fighting knife and the general purpose knife was worn on the belt, not the leggings. the main use of the sgian dubh was to give the mercy stroke to those too wounded after a battle to survive, as such they tended to be razor sharp with a simple grind, I'd go with continuous grind from spine to edge, they weren't multiuse items that needed a blade geometry such as a secondary bevel to keep the edge through a lot of slicing and hacking.

You'd need to consult with a historicsociety or a museum for reliable details however, there should be a caledonian society somewhere in your state.
 
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