Asking financial advice from members of the ESEE board

I want to see that law that says I can't possess 100 hundred dollar bills.
 
I have no idea what kind of business you guys do at trade shows and stuff, but it seems to me that if you had a damned good weekend you could do that in cash sales of knives and gear. If not already, in the future. I was doing some reading and stuff on this because I had heard/read similar things having to do with The Patriot Act and Bank Secrecy Act and a bunch of other control freak legislation and like many things, you probably have to be some type of lawyer to figure out a lot of it. But, isn't that what "Draconian" really gets to?

Draco was a Greek lawyer and politician and he "crafted" a web of laws that no one could really navigate without running afoul of them. Seems to be the way we are going. Has a lot to do with why I am not going to go vote today, either.

I still do some courier work part-time and I have carried almost that much for a small business to a bank to deposit it. It would be incredible to be pulled over for a tail light being out and for an officer, for whatever reason, to want to search that vehicle and find that business owner's loot I am taking to the bank and try to take it. It's not that I would do anything about it, but it would be pretty funny to see that lawsuit.

And you bringing up 100 hundred dollar bills is pretty enlightening, too. I oftentimes take a hundred dollar bill to that bank to get two packs of 50 single dollar bills. That's how much you are talking about in hundred dollar bills. It's a very, very small package of money in hundreds! If you considered the large and small packs you fellas are going to have soon, you could probably stuff over $50,000.00 in that larger of the two packs. Some people might get visions of a briefcase full of money to make ten grand, but it's really not that much in size. And to think that you cannot carry that on your person is amazing if true. Not that I would be shocked by it if it were, nothing much shocks me anymore when it comes to the intrusive nature of things at this point in our development...
 
Wow it amazes me how many people post urban myths and skew the facts.

CTRs are not a bad thing and do not trigger anything within the IRS

You can have as much cash, silver, gold, tin, in your possession as you want (that doesn't mean you wont be questioned about it)

1099s are not issued when dealing with cash, they are given for interest earned on cash investments.

If you are looking for silver dollars, contact your financial institution and see if they have a surplus or can order them.
 
Sethrotull said:
1099s are not issued when dealing with cash
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I'm a little confused by this statement

So, you are saying if I employ someone and pay them cash then I legally don't have to send them a 1099? Miscellaneous income is income, right? Regardless of what form it is paid in.
 
Profiling.

If you are carrying cash and can prove where it came from, I cannot imagine any problems.

Having a large amount in the wrong area and no need for why or how, I suspect you would have troubles.

Ma & Pa Kettle can be unsuspecting mules delivering a camper, SUV or car that is laden with drugs or money. The cop out taking the dog for a potty break at the rest area or hotel after hours might be looking for something else. A large amount of bills with the little transponder tags may be able to be read. Who's got a Vermont license? What is it 75 feet they can id you while driving by?

I am sure there are LE on here that can chime in.
 
R.A.T. said:
I'm a little confused by this statement

So, you are saying if I employ someone and pay them cash then I legally don't have to send them a 1099? Miscellaneous income is income, right? Regardless of what form it is paid in.
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Sorry. To clarify - 1099s are not used when exchanging, depositing, or withdrawing cash. It would not apply in The situation presented here. Unless interest was earned on any money.
 
tekapo said:
Profiling.
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And we all know how great that is! [/sarcasm]

If you are carrying cash and can prove where it came from, I cannot imagine any problems.
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How can anyone "prove" where ten grand "came from" to a cop on the side of the street? That just doesn't make any sense. Is someone supposed to "prove" they didn't get it from some Pablo Escobar wannabe or some member of Uncle Al Kida and his merry band of lunatics?

Just doesn't make any sense.

Having a large amount in the wrong area and no need for why or how, I suspect you would have troubles.
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I reckon that would be warranted if you happened to be talking to a guy with a trunk full of guns or dope in some secluded area and you had ten grand or more on you...

Ma & Pa Kettle can be unsuspecting mules delivering a camper, SUV or car that is laden with drugs or money.
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I know! Just last week someone approached Ma and Pa Kettle with an offer to drive a motorhome across the country and they would pay them to do it, I guess it happens all the time...

I guess it doesn't make much difference to me, the chances of me ever having this "problem" is just about nil. Still, it is troubling that every time we declare "war" on something, we seem to go after ourselves instead of the promised target.
 
either go to kitco, ampex or any of the other reputable retail PM web sites, since you prefer net use. And hit the Buy Precious metal icon, you'll pay spot plus a small premium, you then can lock price in and pay by Wire tranfer, Personal Check, $ Order etc. in incriments of your choosing. Selling can be done the same way and spot paid. Send and recieve all USPS INSURED with adult signature and on you go? :D Most local establishments right now are getting 5-8% OVER spot when buying and 3% under when you sell. Hope that helps.....:thumbup:
 
Be careful. Precious metals are at record highs. I'm not saying they can't go up anymore, but one or two positives in this economy and you will see the precious metals bubble burst.

Just watch what happens to the price of Gold, Silver and Platinum after the U.S. elections and the recent stock market positive movements. I'd wait.
 
1. Although not technically correct, many people refer to the payment of over $10k as reportable on a "1099". Technically, it is a Form 8300. The confusion came about (as I believe) that payments over a certain amount to a business or individual required a 1099. It was never meant to be used in the sense that the money was paid for merchandise, but rather for services, i.e., you hired someone so they have to pay income tax on what you hired them for. Beginning, in 2012, the threshold drops to $600 due to the new healthcare bill--as I understand it. I haven't read it--has anyone? Even congress? Just read commentary on it's analysis.

2. Form 8300 is for cash purchases of over $10k or structured payments that come to over $10k. Cash can be cash, a cashier's check, money order or the like. A personal check or credit card is not cash and not reportable. If you go buy a car for $12k and pay in cash, that dealership is required to report that, which means they are required to get your information to report it.

3. There is absolutely no law against having over $10k in your possession. If any of you guys have ever flown internationally, you fill out the customs form that asks you if you have over $10k on you. It's a crime not to REPORT it, but you can certainly have it, you just have to report it. You will get questioned why you have it but they can't take it away from you. Money seized in traffic stops and the like has to be shown as associated with illicit activity. Believe it or not, guys, people still actually do use cash in this country.

4. A Currency Transaction Report (form 4789) is required to be filled out when transactions over $10k involve financial institutions, i.e., deposits, withdrawals, payments, transfers, etc. This is not filed when purchasing merchandise over $10k from a business that is not a bank. (Although when the business DEPOSITS the money, they'll have to fill one out.

5. A 1099 is not, technically ONLY for income. It can be for other amounts of money that you receive that may or may not be income. For example, if you sell a house, you can receive a 1099-S, which just says how much you received for the house, none of which is actual income and only some of which may even be taxable. 1099-B you receive when selling stock, which lists gross proceeds.
 
<>How can anyone "prove" where ten grand "came from" to a cop on the side of the street? <>
Usually, it seems like we are guilty until we prove our innosense. If you have a reason to carry that much cash, you can prove where it came from. If it is illicit, or 5's and 10's crumpled up and seen a lot of hard street use, Lucy, you got some splainen to do!

<>Just doesn't make any sense.<>
I agree 110%

<>I know! Just last week someone approached Ma and Pa Kettle with an offer to drive a motorhome across the country and they would pay them to do it, I guess it happens all the time...<>
Er, yes. There are ads in the paper for people going south for the winter that want someone to drive their vehicle so they can fly. Auto delivery companies. Boat delivery companies. You must be too young for Vanishing Point. Car rental companies. $500 to drive my Caddy from NY to Miami. I need it there in three days. Here's $250 now and $250 when you delivery. Here's a gas card.

The chances of any of us having this problem is nil! I only was told because I inquired. I did not know what a terroristic threat was until I inquired. My curiousity keeps me out of trouble. Hopefully.
 
Expat, you and I are on the same page when it comes to this. Reason I brought it up is I recently talked to my CPA about 1099s on various projects we are working on. One thing they will never nail me on is trying to skate the IRS laws and rules...now as long as they don't know about the meth lab then I should stay out of prison for a long time.

Thanks for the clarification on all of this.
 
Wow, great responses:thumbup:

To be more specific, I'm looking to take a large portion of what I have in the bank and...not have it in the bank. I'd like to lower my worth so to speak. I figured instead of having $100 bills in a safe, it might be a good time to invest in some silver and gold. It's not specifically for any end of the world scenarios, but this might be a base of metals I'd build on for such a situation. Over the next few years I'd probably trade some it in in small incriments as needed.

I'd like to own silver in fresh coins with the weight stamped right on them, and there are one or two sites out there that seem very legit and have what I'm looking for.

Let's say once a month I spend $3-500 on silver, would that trigger any tax problems or have me filling out paperwork? I'd pay for the silver by credit card, and pay that off by check from the estimated $10,000 I'm trying to convert.

Again, thanks for all the advice and info everyone.
 
Expatriated said:
3. There is absolutely no law against having over $10k in your possession. If any of you guys have ever flown internationally, you fill out the customs form that asks you if you have over $10k on you. It's a crime not to REPORT it, but you can certainly have it, you just have to report it. You will get questioned why you have it but they can't take it away from you. Money seized in traffic stops and the like has to be shown as associated with illicit activity. Believe it or not, guys, people still actually do use cash in this country.
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Absolutely correct.........
I entered the US last June for Blade with cash. All in hundreds.
I declared it to Customs, filled in a form, and in 5 minutes off I went.........
It is a formality.
It states very clearly on the declaration form that it is not an offense to carry more than 10k.....but it is an offense not to declare it.
 
DH1 said:
Let's say once a month I spend $3-500 on silver, would that trigger any tax problems or have me filling out paperwork?
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No tax issues at all.

For that amount, you might want to develop a good relationship with a small, local dealer if your state doesn't require tax.
 
OK. I knew it would happen again around here if I waited. Those that emailed me and I said I would send you the links, I deleted you from my storage by mistake.

<http://www.publicopiniononline.com/ci_16579731>
Again, someone driving south on I-81 pulled over for a traffic stop. No drugs found. Cops were suspicious as the car was full of fully loaded trash bags. Search warrant issued. Bags are full of cash. Confiscated. So far, no charges.

If you check the comments, no one understands what law was broken. Someone also has a link to someone with an ATM business and the banks can not give large amounts of cash out even though it is in your account.

I also found the link to the Federal Appeals Court ruling it is a violation of law to have a large amount of cash!

Federal Appeals Court: Driving With Money is a Crime

Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.
<http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp>

There is a link also to the full rulling for those that are not as legally challenged as myself.

I do know that two days ago I made a purchase and tried to pay with PayPal $4,580.00 direct from my account and they would not permit it. It had to go to my American Express. So there are things brewing that we don't know about.
 
I went to the bank earlier this year, withdrew $14k, and purchased something with it. There were no problems, issues or questions and I was not required to do paperwork on either end of the transaction. It was a purchase at a large, legitimate business, not some private sale.

I don't use credit cards for anything. I use cash. For everything but automatic bill pay out of my account. I've never had even the slightest issue.

I'm not saying that some people out there have not had problems, I'm just saying what my experience has been.
 
If you read the link, these guys were pulling 380k a week in 20s to load ATM machines. All from one large bank. Now they are doing it with many small banks. I'm going to ask if I want to withdraw 50k in twenties is there is any law against it. Course they might tell me I need to deposit 50k first!

<http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2010/11/secret-battle-against-holding-currency.html>

This story is dated three days ago and this may all be new. Two forum posters said they were denied 10K+ that they tried to withdraw without notice claiming they did not have that much on hand. BOA.

I don't know, but would like to know what the laws/rules actually are. Mostly curious as I never have need to carry that much.
 
Let me say that I like silver and I own silver. I think the long term supply and demand fundamentals are excellent. That said, it is also important to remember that the silver spot price can be extremely volatile. In late 2008 it dropped from near $20 to below $10 for a short period, that would have been a very bad time to have to "trade some in." As others also noted, it is now trading at a 30 year high. If the economy rolls over again, or we see any kind of systemic shock, I think spot prices could easily plunge toward $15 as leveraged traders in "paper" silver rush for the exits.

You mentioned only wanting to hold physical coins (the only way i'd do it.) I think buying small increments over time is a good approach. You will probably get the best prices from local dealers and private sellers (i.e. Craigslist.) While online dealers like APMEX, Tulving, and others are perfectly reputable, remember that you will be paying spot price, plus a premium, plus sales tax, plus S&H just to convert your fiat Federal Reserve Notes into "sound money." Not to mention the paper trail left by your credit card purchase. On the other end, selling your silver can also be a hassle. Precious Metals are considered "collectibles" under the tax code and are subject to a 30% capital gains rate regardless of how long you've held them. If you were unlucky enough to ever be audited and didn't have solid records documenting your purchase prices, you could conceivably be stuck paying 30% on the entire amount sold, rather than just on the gains. Also, most dealers have a buy price at some percentage under the current spot price.

The silver I own is silver I intend to hold as insurance primarily for barter purposes in a SHTF scenario. I don't intend to ever have to sell it for paper money. I like pre-1965 US 90% silver coins (see coinflation.com for prices,) Silver Eagles, and 1-ounce coins and bars from recognized mints. For investment purposes, I would consider something like the new Sprott Physical Silver Trust (PSLV) which allows you to receive a lower long-term cap gains rate.
 
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