asking your advice: 5160 Katana

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why would it be fake? if you put the bend into it first then hardened, and diff. tempered it would be stronger the clay coat causes a lot of stress to the metal, and a stress area where the hamon meets the flat. the back of the blade can also bend easily under hard conditions, and the hardened edge can chip, & crack away. not to mention the scratches that half hardened steel will get from use and being drawn from the saya.
if the Japanese could have made their blades like they can be made nowadays, they would have done it. you have to remember also your using 5160, a steel unknown to the Japanese smiths. so you using 5160 is making it a fake. if you want a real samurai sword you gunna have to go to Japan and get some sand, and a special kiln they use to get steel, that’s inferior to modern day 1050.
ya get what im trying to say, if the sword can take a better beating than the originals I wouldn’t call it a fake, id call it progress. but I understand you want a traditional katana, but if that’s the case, then why are you using 5160? also you are grinding the blade, correct? I don’t think Japanese swords were ever made like that until they started mass production for there army, but those swords where made of crap steel anyway.
maybe you could do a clay coat HT, then reharden the blade, and diff. temper the spine. this way you would have the real clay coat curve, you would have a superior sword, and it would still have a hamon! I think, ive never tried a clay coat rehardeneing, tempering route putting the curve in as I forge.
so what are you looking for function, looks, or a good balance of both?
it all depends on what you want!
 
While it's not the traditional Japanese method for the most part (they did sometimes precurve it a little if they wanted it more curved), forging in the curve is still a valid way. All the European sabres aren't fake swords even if they aren't katanas.
 
I wish to talk about the curve and what I understand about it,,,and what I don't understand about it,,,
Please correct my views as I state them so I get a BETTER understanding.

with 1050 steel:
1- Once I got the steel red hot, all the grain is the same size

2-Then in the early stages of the water quench, the un-clay covered steel starts to cool very fast. The grain here in the fast cooling area is smaller than the still red hot steel underneath the clay so the blade bends over the cutting area of the Katana.

3- As the quench goes on, the clay-covered steel slowly starts to cool. The grain underneath the clay gets smaller than the now hardened cooler un-clay covered steel areas, so the blade bends back the other direction now ,and bends in the direction of the spine.

4- blade come out of the water with a cool katana-like curve

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with 5160 steel:
1- once heated all the grain is even in size

2- in the quench the steel without a clay covering cools very fast and sets hard as this is a "deep harding" steel, the grain here is very small, and so the wrong-way curve to the cutting edge sets in.

3- clay-covered red hot steel starts to cool, however due to the already set and cool edge steel, the spine is unable to pull the curve to the rear and so you end up with a curve going the wrong way...

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Please correct my statements.
 
elvenbladesmith07 said:
why would it be fake?
Click to expand...

I dont know if I can explane my reason for thinking it would be fake....

Now, sometimes a "fake" thing can look Great...I know Pamula Anderson has great looking "fake" ones...so, there is something to be said for a well made fake,,,,,

But when you look at something that you know is "fake" however nice the final appearence is, and no matter how much money was spent to make it,,,,there is just something not "worth" as much as a real thing,,,the fake might look better, but is never going to be equal to the real....in the long run owning something that is 100% real but not as good looking is going to be worth more to me than going the other way.....

I just want to be able to look at my swords years from now and know I didnt have to fake them to make them look like a real sword...
 
Well, aren't you being "fake" buy using 5160 barstock, that is not traditional is it? ;)

I just wanted to be a smart a$$, I commend your efforts. Most people would have given up by now. Keep trying and learning and you will get it.
 

5160 is a great steel choice if you're planning to make a katana for real use. It’s tough, flexible, and can take a beating without chipping or cracking—especially compared to higher-carbon steels like 1050 or 1095, which can be more brittle if quenched improperly.


If you’re going for a functional blade rather than a display piece, 5160 is a solid option. Quenching in oil (instead of water) helps reduce the risk of cracking, and even though it won’t give you a dramatic hamon, it still hardens well and holds up under stress. Just be sure to preheat your oil and control your temps to get the most from it.


At Everest Forge, we’ve made a lot of large working blades from 5160—including kukris, machetes, and short swords—and we’re currently experimenting with forging katanas using traditional fullers and geometry but with a modern steel approach like 5160. It’s a very capable steel in the right hands.


If anyone is interested in seeing our blades or even commissioning a custom-forged katana from 5160, feel free to check us out:


Website: https://everestforge.com
Custom Forge Orders: https://everestforge.com/pages/custom-forging


Happy forging and looking forward to seeing how your project comes along.


– Deepak
Everest Forge
 
This is a twenty year old thread. Please look at the dates before posting.
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