Assembling A Sharpening Kit

MtnHawk1 said:
Mister Coffee, are you aware of the advantages and disadvantages of coarse vs. smooth edges for what you want to do with your knives?

If not, you could end up buying stones you don't need.
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Frankly, I'm still learning. Still reading as much as I can, and still listening to you good folk. Please feel free to share your thoughts.
 
The DMT 1200 grit is their extra fine stone. I use this one more than the fine stone, but both are very useful. As MtnHawk1 mentioned, you don’t always need a polished edge. It depends on what you are cutting and the steel. I want a polished edge on some blades and not others. Generally, I want to go to at least 1200 grit on a diamond stone. I may stop here or go further using ceramic or other stones. I prefer a polished edge on woodworking blades, but not on many of my kitchen knives. If I am in a hurry, it is usually easy to touch up a general use kitchen knife on a 1200 grit diamond stone. I normally want a polished edge on knives meant for fish or meat. There is no “rule” about this. I last sharpened a hatchet using a belt sander with a 400 grit belt and it worked fine for my immediate needs.
 
This thread has got me thinking that if I could only keep one of ny sharpening systems which would it be? The answer I decided upon was the Ken Onion Worksharp. I can sharpen large knives, like kitchen knives, on it and I can also do small knives but they seem to be a bit trickier getting close to the belt without the belt hitting a bolster. I can change the edge angle easily and it is pretty easy to get a good working edge.
I love my Spyderco ceramics but if I am only going to have one system then it is the Worksharp.
 
Easyrider Easyrider : I salute you, but that's way too advanced for me. I'd be dangerous around power tools.

I've seen preparedmind101 using his Ken Onion. He seems to like it a lot.
 
I'm enjoying the discussion as it is going, but I thought I might throw out two specific "test cases."

1) A Buck 501. I think the steel is 440C (it's old), and, of course, it's a hollow grind. The edge isn't too bad, but I don't think it's fully sharp. It'll cut fruit, but it won't cut paper or shave hair.

2) An 8-in. Zwilling J.A. Henckels Profession "S" Friodur Ice Hardened 31021-200 chef's knife. Flat grind. The edge is in pretty poor condition. It's not chipped, but it's wavy.

So, here's the question: What do I need to sharpen these two knives. I want the Buck to easily slice paper, and I want raw tomatoes to run in fear from the Henckels.
 
The Buck 501 could be 420HC or even S30V. I actually have one in S30V. Depending on the steel, you could get by with a number of stones. A combination India stone would do it for 420HC, but may not work well on S30V - mine is a custom. I have an old Gerber paring knife in 440C that is hard to sharpen, but responds well to a DMT fine stone. You can sharpen just about any steel with a silicon carbide combination oilstone. Ceramic stones from Spyderco will work, and this includes the medium and fine. There isn’t one solution. The answer to which stones will work depends on what sort of an edge you want on your knives, how much you want to spend on them. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the Buck is 420HC. Does the blade say what type of steel it is?
 
I bought the Buck 501 around 1981. Wikipedia has this note: "Before 1981, the specially heat treated stainless steel used was 440C, and from 1981 to 1992 the company used 425M steel." So, it could be 440C or 425M. This is also what Buck told me when I contacted them. There is no steel type indicated on the blade.
 
The 501 sounds like it could be freehanded on the fine side of any garden variety combination oilstone, but I’m on a water stone jag right now so I’d use those. The Henckel, is it wavy up and down, or side to side? Those are different kinds of damage and need different remedies, IMHO.

At any decent swap meet you can find grungy old combination oilstones for less than 5 bucks. Our granddads honed their pocket and kitchen knives on them for decades. Just sayin’.

Parker
 
If the Buck is 440C it will sharpen with a combination carborundum/India stone. It would be much faster with a diamond stone, like a combo fine, extra fine - or a medium/fine. I was able to get a good toothy edge on the 440C Gerber paring knife with a 600 grit fine DMT. That particular knife was almost impossible to sharpen with an India stone.
 
Okay. This will sound kinda drastic, but you can pad it up in a vise and file out the waves, then form a fresh bevel with a coarse stone (or with the file, for that matter). Refine it with the fine stone, then strop it on the thin cardboard backing from a writing tablet. That should get you through all the tomatoes you can eat at one sitting.

Parker
 
catspa said:
Okay. This will sound kinda drastic, but you can pad it up in a vise and file out the waves, then form a fresh bevel with a coarse stone (or with the file, for that matter). Refine it with the fine stone, then strop it on the thin cardboard backing from a writing tablet. That should get you through all the tomatoes you can eat at one sitting.

Parker
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Maybe I'll post a picture of it later today. That way, you'll have a chance to see my crappy knives and my crappy photography. :)
 
A coarse / fine India or Crystolon combination stone would be a good stone to start with. You need sth. coarse to reprofile your blade. The finer side should give you a good working sharpness. As already mentioned those stones are not that expensive. You could try a Norton, or a Lansky, for example. A Spyderco Medium is much finer than it sounds; this stone should make the edge finer, a little less toothy and sharp enough for most tasks.
An India (Aluminum Oxide) is finer and less aggressive than a Crystolon (Silicon Carbide).
A diamond stone instead of the India / Crystolon would do the job, too.
When the edge is in bad shape you need a stone that takes away metal quickly, as you don't want to spend too much time with this step. So start with that stone until the edge is sharp and no longer chipped. Then a finer stone for "honing".
 
If you reprofile on a stone, you might experiment with moving the knife diagonally or lengthwise on it. Longer contact point might be easier to produce a fair curve (or fair straight, if you prefer).

Parker
 
Mister Coffee, I would get a Norton, JB-8. A SiC stone.
It will cut way faster than a diamond stone and you can use pressure. Plus, there is much more material on the stone to wear away. Whereas with a diamond the grit is attached to the plates surface is very thin and will fracture and rub off with sharpening.
Reprofile using the coarse side and finish on the finer side.
If your 501 is 440c steel it will have a thick edge. A modified hollow grind. Which needs to be ground down, creating a thinner edge. Then it will cut like you want it to. Good luck. DM
 
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I could be wrong here, but I think that the Norton IB8 is an India stone, even on the coarse side. It is a good idea to get a combo stone with a coarse SiC stone and fine India. Norton makes this sort of stone, and I saw it in a larger size. It is also possible to get 2 stones in 2X8” size. This could include a combination coarse/fine SiC stone and a separate fine India stone of the same size (or a combo India fine/coarse). You can get a very good edge from a fine India, and the Crystalon stone will give you fast sharpening. If Norton has a combo stone in 2X8 with a coarse SiC and fine India, that would be the leas expensive option and it would certainly work well.

Incidentally, the Spyderco medium ceramic works well for sharpening a complex steel like the Lee Valley PM-V11. I found it works well, but slowly on this steel. I used the Norton fine Ascent ceramic for finishing a 2 1/8” wide spokeshave blade in this steel, and followed with a strop using 1 micron diamond paste. The medium Spyderco is flat enough for this sort of task. It is a pretty smooth stone, and won’t give you quick sharpening on harder steels. It does a good job on the hard to sharpen PM-V11.
 
The best and quickest stone I've found for reprofiling, and often to start sharpening with, is the 60 grit Baryonyx Manticore. Although I enjoy freehand sharpening and reprofiling, I don't have the time or inclination to spend any more time at it than I have to (while not compromising quality).
 
Y’know, I’ve been meaning to get one of those. Member HeavyHanded (more skillful sharpener than I’ll ever be) apparently likes his pretty good.

Parker
 
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