Assisted openers, what the point?

I can somewhat agree with you. Actually, I can completely agree with you. I can open my BM710 nearly as fast as anything. The exception being my BM5000 auto axis. Have you tried the auto axis? it's a world of difference in the autos. It's lefty or righty, and easier than a normal button.

When it comes down to it, if I want a knife I can trust 100%..... it WILL NOT be an auto. I have/had a quite a few high end autos and they have all failed or broken. I don't even trust omega springs in axis locks. This is why I'm in the market for a Spydi Mil.


edit: basically I like autos because play with them like a 10 year old. They're fun.
 
I guess the only advantage that I can to them is that you can make a knife very slim and compact yet still have it open fast.

I think of the Kershaw Leek which seems to be one of the better AOs I have tried. If it had a large hole in the blade like a Spyderco, it would not be nearly as small and compact. The Kershaw Chive would be much harder to open if it didn't have the assist feature.

I never said I don't like them and the fact that they are cool is more than enough reason to own one. Some people do not own more than a knife or two and don't need features to keep the from getting bored.

I have a work knife (BM 921s) that I carry because it is the best I have seen for what I want out of a work knife and I have a bunch of other knives that only get carried around the house or after work and on weekends. The BM 921s gets most of the real use. I have tried a AO in the same role as the 921s and it was slower. I often wear gloves at work so I can't be messing with small levers and switches just to get my blade out. I just pull the 921 out and flick it with my thumb on the Axis lock and it is out in a split second. It locks closed the same way is faster than anything else I have tried. An OTF auto that opens and closes on auto might be faster but would be more expensive and less durable. It would also be more dangerous if it didn't have some sort of safety.
 
kgriggs8 said:
. I just pull the 921 out and flick it with my thumb on the Axis lock and it is out in a split second. It locks closed the same way is faster than anything else I have tried.
Click to expand...

BM5000 opens with the axis lock. what I'm saying is if you can open an manual axis, then you could open an auto axis. But what's the point if you're happy with what you have is the question.
 
CaptInsano said:
It sounds like the common denominator among people who do not like AO knives is a personal inability to effectively operate the mechanism. While that's okay, I don't really see it as anything other than a personal issue.
Click to expand...

You nailed that one...for some this even seems to have evolved into an agenda...hmmm...


Some of the supposed negatives:

Slower to open/close (have to fumble to do so): A thumbstud is a thumbstud and a flipper is a flipper. Whether they're found on an A/O or a manual, they work the same. Safeties don't have to be engaged. I close two-handed most of the time, so closing's not an issue for me....A/Os are only marginally slower to close one-handed anyway. Closing speed is really a smoke-screen issue from someone with an agenda.

More moving parts: in Kershaw's case just a torsion bar (some larger knives have 2)...very easy to replace if it ever does break. I can't speak to Benchmades...don't have any.

Costlier knives: Kershaw probably makes more A/Os then most manufacturers, yet their value/price ratio and flat-out lower street prices usually win for a given set of features, construction and material quality levels.

Cheaper steels (and perhaps other materials?): not even worth addressing. This one's pure bunk.

Thumb safety: When a thumbstud is used properly, the thumb is never in danger of contacting the blade, whether A/O or manual.


The positives have already been alluded to by other posters...


There are a small number of tactical situations where slow, quiet one-handed opening is desirable. The clack of an A/O opening is a disadavantage is these situations.
 
I know this post will essentially be another "to each his own" post, but I thought I would try to put it in a way that I had to put it to my self. I have felt the same way the original poster does for some time, however, not always. I am frequently arguing at work that an ao isn't all that, and that my Spyderco's or BM axis is in fact faster and easier to open and close, but I have come to the realization that this is based solely on my experience.

I taught myself some time ago how to operate my one hand opening knives proficiently, and have come to appreciate good designs. But to the average guy who carries a knife, the knife that opens itself is certainly the easiest choice. They aren't really interested in analyzing why the design may be less reliable, or whatever.

An assisted opener is just another design to get a knife open easily. If a knife could be made to tighten and loosen screws, they would make one. If one could be made to tighten and loosen bolts, it would be made. If one could be made to point north, then it would be out there to point north, and if one could be made to hook up to you boat and tow it down the road, it would be made. :rolleyes:

The ao knife is made to open itself rather than you having to open it, and it does this job effeciently. This is the point of an ao.

Arguing that you can do this better with your knife no more lessens the value of the design
 
reholli said:
You nailed that one...for some this even seems to have evolved into an agenda...hmmm...


Some of the supposed negatives:

Slower to open/close (have to fumble to do so): A thumbstud is a thumbstud and a flipper is a flipper. Whether they're found on an A/O or a manual, they work the same. Safeties don't have to be engaged. I close two-handed most of the time, so closing's not an issue for me....A/Os are only marginally slower to close one-handed anyway. Closing speed is really a smoke-screen issue from someone with an agenda.
Click to expand...

I agree that they're not slower to open. I think a lot of folks consider them faster, but I've found them to be about the same, so long as the user is familiar with the knife. Once you get your hand in an opening position, the speed difference is negligible. Getting in the "opening position depends on the knife design and the user, NOT whether it's ao or manual. Closing really shouldn't be an issue with AO, so much as with the lock type, except for the BM autos with the axis locks.
 
I have a couple different knives, but only one EDC, until my 710 arrives, which is axis lock, not AO, but close, lol.

I keep the Kershaw Blackout everywhere I go and it's been used for cutting just about everything I need to cut.

The other knives I have are manual open, lockback style and I'm just not really fond of them. They cut stuff equally as well, but I can get the Blackout out and opened so quickly that I'd rather keep it on me. Just a little flick of the thumb throws the blade out enough to let the Speedsafe take over. It's quick, lol Especially if I only have 1 hand available.

I might even add a Cyclone to my collection, lol. But I'm big fan of AO. I would love to get a Nitrous Stryker as well.
 
Didn't read the whole thread but, I'd say autos and especially AOs have gotten a lot of people into knives, and that has to be good for everybody.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
I like autos and AOs but I don't have many. I don't find them as reliable, especially in a tight situation. Who needs a powerful auto jumping out of their freezing fingers? :)

They are fun toys. My S30V Leek is a great knife in its own right, and the AO isn't so powerful that I would lose control. I use the flipper to open it, which is also fun. But a simple thumbstud or opening disk or hole, liner or frame or axis lock folder is a lot more convenient.
Click to expand...

[Emphasis added.]
I agree; they are fun toys. But a great deal of fun. ;)
I've sold pretty much all of my AO's over the past year or so.
Only ones I've kept...a Hissatsu Folder, a Kershaw SpeedBump (black aluminum scales) and a Benchmade 913 Nitrous Stryker.

One thing about the *legality* of AO's...if AO's are not outright illegal where you are, they're a better bet (IMO)
than a regular liner lock which can almost always be considered a "gravity knife".
AO liner locks stay closed because of the torsion - they can't be "flicked" open like almost every liner lock can...
 
Kaizen1 said:
I agree that they're not slower to open. I think a lot of folks consider them faster, but I've found them to be about the same, so long as the user is familiar with the knife. Once you get your hand in an opening position, the speed difference is negligible. Getting in the "opening position depends on the knife design and the user, NOT whether it's ao or manual. Closing really shouldn't be an issue with AO, so much as with the lock type, except for the BM autos with the axis locks.
Click to expand...

I agree completely.

I hate the argument that knife x opens faster than an auto or an ao because you have to 'fumble' around to find the button/lever/whatever. Really? What if I said that I think an auto is faster because you don't have to 'fumble' around to find the thumbstud? Sounds stupid, doesn't it?

On the vast majority of knives, you need to 'find' something with one of your fingers. I can gaurantee that anybody familiar with a particular knife isn't fumbling around to find anything.

I love the Axis lock and have dozens of knives with that particular lock. I cannot open all of them at the same speed. :eek: It's true. I am far better manipulating some of them over others. Granted, I'm talking about getting the knife out of my pocket and into the open position (once in the ready position, they are all quick and easy to manipulate). The ones that I am more familiar with come easier than those that don't see the light of day too much.

So, I'm not surprised when somebody who isn't used to handling a particular knife or a particular kind of knife finds it a bit awkward at first. I have a waved Delica, but since I don't carry or practice the move too often I cannot open it faster than many other folders that I normally carry. Even so, I'm not going to sit here and say that since I personally am not familiar enough with the wave feature that it's slower than other methods for everybody. That would be foolish.
 
I just feel uncomfortable with a knife that pretty much opens by itself. By sharp contrast I do like Kershaw's Junkyard Dog and R J Martin's new Zing, both of which are very quick manual flippers. I am sure it must have to do with the feeling of release of the stored kinetic energy of the torsion bar that I don't like but having only played with a few assisted openers I can't say for certain. It also feels sort of gimmicky to me.
 
I like variety in knives, I'm glad I have my Kershaw Chive and Mikov Auto. I'm looking into a small old school stag scaled Hubertus as well....but AO and Auto knives are knives that are essentially on the periphery of my knife world.There isn't a lot of point in them, I do have safety concerns with leaving the Chive in my pocket without the safety on...and it takes time fiddling about with these little things. The Mikov is a big brute and jumps a fair bit in your hand. But, it's really amusing AND satisying to open them...especially when you have boring guests or family members who hang around a bit too long....THAT concentrates their minds!
 
well most people that use AOs or autos do not use the locks on them, a lot of the knives do not need the locks while others do. sogs do not need the lock because it is hard enough to get open that you will not bump it open. most of the kershaws ive seen are the same way (not as hard but still enough) a friend of mine has a buck and the way the lock is on it just requires you to slide your finger down the spine and then return to the same position and come down again to open the blade (double stroke an area 1/4 of an inch basicaly to open the blade)

if you use the lock on some of the knives yes it will take longer but for those that do not it is much faster.

now the reasons people cary them, i like a knife i can open with one hand easily and i dont want to have the blade loose enough that i can flick it out (and frankly i dont have the cash to buy one i can do that with that has a tight lock up). also on most of the knives if the opening devices were to fail or break they should still function as a normal folder.

-matt
 
I'm indifferent
On one hand, they're fun, especially with a flipper
On the other, A properly detented knife with flipper is just as fast (RJ Martin Zing, JYD, etc)
Plus, on an auto, the push button locks it closed. Doesn't open unless you push the button. On an AO, the detent is all that's stopping it from opening, if I drop it, etc. I know the chances of it opening is slim, but still there (especially, since I carry my knives loose in the pocket)
 
There has been debates that there is no need for a locking blade especially a one handed opening folder. In a way its just an extension to the arguement that AO is not needed. Just as the arguement that Auto opening folders are not needed. So where are we willing to let the non beleivers stop the progression of tech?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top