Hey everyone,
I've been looking around online with no clear answer to my question. Are assisted openers legal in PA? The Pennsylvania law says:
I've taken several law classes, and based on my previous, although limited, knowledge I would almost have to say that I cant have my leek :grumpy:. The case law seems to establish the "otherwise" phrase as a catch all for what ever they feel like not allowing.
What is everyones take on this?
-bugbear
I posted this thread and all information and pertinent sources are included.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1266453-FYI-Pennsylvania-Knife-Laws
I have sold knives in several states over the past 5 years,Pennsylvania being one of them, I would like to add to this discussion.
#1; According to what I have learned of State Law,AO is legal to a point.
#2 ANY pocket knife with a blade of more than 3 5/8 inches,when carried in a pocket,is considered a weapon and requires a Concealed Carry Permit.
#3 An Automatic knife requires a Concealed Carry Permit,period. Except for Law Enforcement and Active Duty Military.
#4 In the field,all of these laws are open to interpretation of the Officer. If you run across a Township Constable having a Bad Day,it could cost you.
#5 The Pocket Clip is a Dead Giveaway to said Officer that you're packin SOMETHING.
#1...Somewhat correct. AO is not defined and therefore is legal.
switchblades and "automatic" are....and therefore, are regulated. AO is not regulated.
#2...Incorrect. there is no limit to blade length and if the knife meets the allowed criteria, may be carried open or concealed.
#3...There is no "concealed Carry Permit/License" for knives. The "CCW" that PA uses is a "License to carry a concealed firearm." Nothing more, nothing less.
#4...There's no such thing as "township Constable" as Local Law Enforcement in Pennsylvania. A Constable is an Officer of the Court - meaning specifically - the "law enforcement officer" for the Bench. They are voted into Office by the public and report directly [and at the sole behest of] to the local Magistrate. Their duties are to fulfill the lawful order of the Magistrate.
------HOWEVER-----"open to interpretation" is somewhat correct. It's in the vagueness of the law in which it says, "It is illegal to own any implement for the infliction of bodily injury, which serves no common lawful purpose--------and
THAT'S where Officer Interpretation/discretion comes in to play.
#5...the pocket clip is a pocket clip and immaterial to anything unless you are being investigated for some infraction of the law. The Terry Stop has limitations on how and when we [LE] may search a suspect. Simply viewing a "pocket clip" [without any reasonable suspicion a crime was or is being committed] is
NOT ENOUGH for me to search you for a weapon. I need probable cause...and a "pocket clip" is not probable cause enough [on its own] to warrant a search.
I invite you to read the following legal definition of Terry Stop:
http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terry-stop/
A local LEO explained to me that it is up to the officer at the time of the incident whether or not what knife is being carried is legal. Based on his judgement of what its' purpose is and the situation in question. Example: You are roaming the streets at 3a.m. dressed fully in black carrying a Benchmade 470 Osborne. He may deem you are up to no goods and treat you as he wishes. My opinion: This is an example of how we are creeping closer to insanity every day.
SEMPER-FI TIL I DIE
Yes and no. Again, I refer you to the above link for the definition of Terry Stop.
As to "roaming the streets....et al..."..........this is the United States and we are not under Martial Law [not yet, anyway]. The citizens of the United States are free to roam around when and wherever they like. They don't need "papers" to move about the streets.....and therefore, me "thinking you are up to no good" isn't enough to stop and detain you for anything. I can watch you, I can document your behavior [dash cam as one example] if I think you are up to no good.....but I just can't stop everyone walking around, no matter how they are dressed, no matter the time of day/night based on a "complaint-less" suspicion. Does that mean fellow Officers feel that way? Nope...the "new breed" is being trained that everyone is a suspect and "be proactive." I get into these pissing matches with the Rookies on my Dept. all the time. They are wrong - I know it and you know it - but for whatever reason, the Academy is fear-mongering the crap out of the new hires and the Judicial Branch has
sadly been their "enabler."
I'm going to wait to respond to #4 and #5 as I don't believe your statements to be based on facts. For example, Pa. CCW laws DO NOT in any way cover knives.
Correct.
Thanks for continuing to post information that does not back up your statements. Where does it say you need a concealed carry permit for a knife? I'll save you some time, it does not. Concealed carry permits are for firearms, not knives. Whether the knife is an automatic changes nothing. Autos are illegal to carry except for the stated exceptions. There are no state laws restricting blade length.
Correct.
Lawmakers and law enforcement love these vague laws because they can bend the enforcement to whatever means and ends they wish at the time. If I travel to a location like this I carry a small Leatherman. It is a "tool", not a "weapon", and it takes umpteen manual operations to expose the knife blade.
Correct. Laws are vaguely written and the reason is to give us [LE] some feeling of 'power' to decide in the appropriateness of a situation within a situation. It allows me to use discretion, given a set of circumstances. Sadly though, some Officers use it with Malice because....well....they got beat up in high school or were scorned by their lover one-too-many times [yeah....I said it].
As far as I know, PA concealed carry permits only pertain to firearms and nothing else. Mine actually says "Pennsylvania Permit To Carry Firearms" on it.
Correct.
