ASVAB scores are back, now what?

Something to think about if you are trying to make the choice of ultimately being a soldier or an officer, is whether you take pressure and responsibility well.

Be honest with yourself: do you like to have the weight of the world on your shoulders, do you thrive under pressure, can you take heavy stress from all corners all at the same time?

Or do you prefer to do a task until it's done and then move on or have free time, do you like your peace and quiet, and do you prefer to get things done on a timetable rather than on a deadline?

Some people can not handle leadership roles or responsibility for other people. There's nothing wrong with that, everybody's different. A person that can't take that stress will be really miserable. On the other hand, some people can't take being a cog in a machine with only a bare minimum of say in their affairs; likewise those people get miserable as grunts.

You'll save yourself a lot of frustration if you can somehow figure that question out, it's a big one. My advice if you can't decide is to go to a camp or long term activity this summer and seek out a leadership role. If you aren't happy, chances are you wouldn't be happy as an officer.

Bobofish makes an excellent point... as an officer, you will (relatively) immediately be put into a position of ever growing responsibility.

Read "responsibility" to mean, responsible for the behavior, performance and actions, of those below you in the chain of command that may, or may not, all be as dedicated to mission accomplishment as you are... simply stated, you will be ultimately responsible for someone, who doesn't like what they do... who doesn't want to do their job... and it will be you who is ultimately responsible for their success or failure (now multiply that unhappy guy by 20).

As an officer, expect to spend 90 percent of your time, dealing with 10 percent of your people.

As for becoming a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO), keep in mind that as your career progresses, you WILL be placed into higher and higher levels of responsibility as well.

In the AF you start out as an Airman... essentially an apprentice, and you can screw up, be forgiven and pretty much only be responsible for your own work... you'll have no subordinates.

When you get that next stripe, or perhaps two more, you WILL be expected to have some leadership and supervisory responsibility (a few guys may report to you). E-1 through E-3 you are a apprentice/trainee with minimal supervisory responsibility (or trained skills to be so).

At approx. E-4 through E-6 you start to get some serious training in how to lead people/supervise as well as advanced training in your chosen skill set. You WILL become a technician first/with some supervisor responsibility second.

From E-7 through E-9 that balance starts to flip and you will be a supervisor first/technician second... that is, your job function changes to one of mainly supervision and instructor.

Keep in mind that your progression to the supervisory ranks isn't just based on your work... they don't just throw you into a supervisory position without teaching you how to do it. You WILL be given training in Effective Counseling of personnel, Motivating Subordinates, Leadership techniques and a whole slew of other "Manager/Management" training classes.

By the time you reach E-6, you will have been given management/supervision training about the equivalent to the first two years in most colleges (now a days, the military teaches, Deming, Maslow, Covey, etc. to prepare you in advance for supervisory positions).

Most Master Sgt.s, Senior Master Sgt.s and Chief Master Sgt.s have been taught a set of manager skills that rival (or exceed) civilian CEO's.:eek:

After I left the military, I worked for a company (and was exposed to many other companies) who's Managers, Supervisors, and even CEO's had MUCH less formal training in "Managing" that did most E-6's I'd worked with in the military.

I attended 10 Supervision/Management college classes with a bunch of civvies from different companies and one of them was a retired AF MSgt. EVERY class we took had already been given to this guy while he was in the AF (to the surprise of the civvies in the class... they didn't realize that he had so much Management training... they figured all that all he knew was how to march in a straight line:rolleyes:).

He graduated those courses first in the class (it was all "old hat" to him) above civvies twice his age and experience in management positions (in the civy world people often get promoted to supervisory positions and even management positions without ANY formal training and it shows:barf:.) I'd trade them all in for a few good E-7's, E-8's and Chiefs.

No matter what you decide to do (officer/enlisted) be prepared to eventually lead or get out of the way (if you are found unable, or unwilling to lead, the military WILL get you out of the way;))

Good luck.

(Tim, Retired AF)

ON EDIT: If you take a position with a high expectation of seeing combat/high risk (Ranger, Infantry, Para, Combat aircraft etc.), PLEASE, PLEASE ask yourself TWO very important questions:

This first question is easy and most who are considering joining the military almost always respond "YES" (with bravado);

#1 - Are you willing to die for your country? (most have thought about this and reply "yes").

Question number 2 is not often considered, but from personal experience, I can tell you it's VERY/MORE important than the first question;

#2 - Are you willing to kill for your country--- and live every day for the rest of your life remembering that you have killed for your country?

There's an old saying (and some here can relate), "Being dead is easy but killing and living with that fact is hard."

Please give some SERIOUS consideration those two questions!
 
I served in the USAF from 89-93 active duty and in the Reserve from 1993-1997. I traveled all over the world and I would not hesitate to do it again. When I enlisted the USAF Special Forces (Pararescue, Combat Controller, SERE) were not available to me as a career field. They were secondary careers that you could apply for while in basic training. Now you can choose it right off the bat. Had I been given the opportunity I would have chosen Pararescue.

In this time of conflict you should be asking yourself if you really want to be a gung-ho shoot em' up Ranger or would you rather have a career that will not only give you valuable skills while you serve but skills that transfer to the civilian world easily? Pararescue men are some of the most compassionate individuals I have ever met. Their pride and skills equal or exceed those of any Ranger, SEAL, or "bad ass operator" I have ever met. Their training is the best in the world and they only take the best into their ranks.

Do not get me wrong...the Army has its advantages but they do not exceed the advantages of becoming a member of one of the best branches of the military, the USAF. Anyone can become an infantryman, anyone can become a ground pounder, anyone can become a desk jockey but it takes a special individual to become an Airman. The USAF just doesn't take anybody anymore. You have to meet a certain criteria. You will be elite just by joining.

Do not make the mistake my cousin made. He joined the Army, became a Captain, joined the Rangers, fought and was wounded in Iraq, and is now redeployed to Afghanistan. You know what he tells me when I see him? "I should have joined the USAF. They just treat you guys better." His commission ends in 18 months. 8 years total. Guess what he's doing when he leaves? He's transferring to the USAF.
 
Excellent points guys, thank you much.
Lots of stuff to consider. I do think of myself as a leader because I tend to lead and advise my friends when they get into difficult situations, I know that is very different then leading men in combat but I enjoy having responsibility placed on me.

Tomorrow a recruiter that is a 11c is coming out to talk with me.
Any questions I should ask?
 
"Do not get me wrong...the Army has its advantages but they do not exceed the advantages of becoming a member of one of the best branches of the military, the USAF. Anyone can become an infantryman, anyone can become a ground pounder, anyone can become a desk jockey but it takes a special individual to become an Airman. The USAF just doesn't take anybody anymore. You have to meet a certain criteria. You will be elite just by joining."

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but this is straight up bullshit. The Airforce is not elite by any measure of the word. My sister is in the Airforce. Her friends are faggots. Can you hump 60lbs of gear (which is your typical load of ammo, water, and body armor) or more depending on special equipment in 115 degree heat while clearing a city block? However, the war has wound way down, and we don't get to do that kind of stuff anymore.

If you are physically weak go AF, but don't get caught up in the stereotype that infantrymen are stupid. There are some highly educated individuals in my unit. In fact a MI friend of mine was telling me 11B's are like the 3rd most intelligent MOS in the Army. They just happen to either be violent by nature or wanted to do cool stuff. None of us joined for college money.

As for the post about killing and dying, those were very viable points. I will point out that it isn't for our country that we do those things. It is only for our buddies, and it is hard. I know a lot of people who died on my first deployment.

It is good your recruiter is an 11C (mortarman) He will be able to give you a lot of info on the Infantry. Ask him about the option 40, which allows you to attend jump school and RIP after you graduate from basic. RIP is the Ranger Indoctrination Program. It assesses you to determine if you are fit to go to a Ranger unit. Upon graduation from RIP you get assigned somewhere in the 75th. If you washout you go to the needs of the Army and usually get assigned to the next infantry unit to deploy.

To make it in any Light unit you should be running near 13:00 for 2 miles and 5 miles in 40min or less.

You should also be able to ruckmarch 45lbs for 12 miles in under 3hrs minimum.

I do believe these same standards apply for RIP.
 
I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but this is straight up bulls--t. The Airforce is not elite by any measure of the word. My sister is in the Airforce. Her friends are faggots. Can you hump 60lbs of gear (which is your typical load of ammo, water, and body armor) or more depending on special equipment in 115 degree heat while clearing a city block?

<snip>

If you are physically weak go AF, but don't get caught up in the stereotype that infantrymen are stupid.

Gee, that wasn't offensive at all.:rolleyes:

Say that to a AF Para, or a NAVY SEAL and they'll bury you (and your 6 buddies standing behind you).:D

The AF/Navy need brains, not brawn. By the way, can YOU fly an F-16, F-18, or work on the Nuclear Power Plant of a Navy Ship/Boat? Didn't think so.;)

Now pick up that 60 pound rucksack and start running grunt:p. I'll see you at the FOB... I'm gonna' fly (I'll be the one who's been waiting an hour for you to show up while lounging in the shade under the wing of my A-10).:D:p
 
a couple of more things to add.

Basic training will get you in shape, but it will be easier if you are at a certain level when you arrive. Also the big thing from talking to friends who have gone through RIP is not quitting. They will smoke the fu** out of you and try to make you quit.

Also, don't expect to see any combat this war. We haven't done shit this deployment. Most medics and non-combat arms types (POGs) think this is a good thing, but all the grunts are pissed off. There is far more frustration now than when things were bad and we actually got to fu** shit up. The war is over. All we're doing now is training Iraqi military and police. The U.S. will be out by the 31DEC2012.
 
"Do not get me wrong...the Army has its advantages but they do not exceed the advantages of becoming a member of one of the best branches of the military, the USAF. Anyone can become an infantryman, anyone can become a ground pounder, anyone can become a desk jockey but it takes a special individual to become an Airman. The USAF just doesn't take anybody anymore. You have to meet a certain criteria. You will be elite just by joining."

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but this is straight up bullshit. The Airforce is not elite by any measure of the word. My sister is in the Airforce. Her friends are faggots. Can you hump 60lbs of gear (which is your typical load of ammo, water, and body armor) or more depending on special equipment in 115 degree heat while clearing a city block? However, the war has wound way down, and we don't get to do that kind of stuff anymore.

If you are physically weak go AF, but don't get caught up in the stereotype that infantrymen are stupid. There are some highly educated individuals in my unit. In fact a MI friend of mine was telling me 11B's are like the 3rd most intelligent MOS in the Army. They just happen to either be violent by nature or wanted to do cool stuff. None of us joined for college money.

As for the post about killing and dying, those were very viable points. I will point out that it isn't for our country that we do those things. It is only for our buddies, and it is hard. I know a lot of people who died on my first deployment.

It is good your recruiter is an 11C (mortarman) He will be able to give you a lot of info on the Infantry. Ask him about the option 40, which allows you to attend jump school and RIP after you graduate from basic. RIP is the Ranger Indoctrination Program. It assesses you to determine if you are fit to go to a Ranger unit. Upon graduation from RIP you get assigned somewhere in the 75th. If you washout you go to the needs of the Army and usually get assigned to the next infantry unit to deploy.

To make it in any Light unit you should be running near 13:00 for 2 miles and 5 miles in 40min or less.

You should also be able to ruckmarch 45lbs for 12 miles in under 3hrs minimum.

I do believe these same standards apply for RIP.

I won't endorse everything this young fellow has to say, but I will say this:

I retired after 30 years in the USAF. During that time, I was fortunate to work with every US Service (and a lot of Coalition and Allied Services) at every level of effort.

I've known USAF professionals who could have given the NFL a good shot. I've worked with Army professionals who could have taught physics at MIT.;)

Don't pay attention to stereotypes. Not many "wimps" do well in the USAF and few USArmy folks are blockheads. For one thing, you don't give blockheads deadly weapons.

I'm proud to be a US veteran, and I can tell you that you can be proud of today's servicemen and woman, whatever their Service.:)

By the way, the OP had a decent AFQT score. My advice? Leverage it ... and try something challenging.
 
Also, don't expect to see any combat this war. We haven't done shit this deployment. Most medics and non-combat arms types (POGs) think this is a good thing, but all the grunts are pissed off. There is far more frustration now than when things were bad and we actually got to fu** shit up. The war is over. All we're doing now is training Iraqi military and police. The U.S. will be out by the 31DEC2012.

Rats. I know I shouldn't respond to this.

But.

Don't bet on it. I've been around ... and around. It may seem like you're wasting your time playing in the sand today, but that can change over night. Don't get slack, don't get careless. It ain't safe over there.
 
I just got off the phone with my local marine recruiter, real nice guy but a real talker.
I'm going to meet with him sometime also just to weigh my options but I am really set on the Army.
I dont want to be a POG btw.

Oh yeah, I dont play on branch stereotypes(although I know the AF has the nicest facilities atleast in my opinion).
I will never ever criticise someone from a military branch because they have served and I have not, simple enough.
 
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Viking...No one's more indoctrinated than the indoctrinators. You're a real hard charger aren't you? MacGregor, don't get caught up in the POG (sp) stuff. If every soldier in the Army were Infantry, nothing would ever get done. It's all fine and dandy that you can ruck 50 miles with 80 pounds on your back, but if you don't know where you're going, you don't have anyone to supply you with a ruck, you don't have anyone who can feed you afterwards, or wash your clothes or take care of you when you fall out, what good are you? You're a pack mule, not a soldier. Point being, all soldiers play a part. And as for people in the AF being weak/gay/whatever, that kind of talk just makes you sound ignorant.
I still think you should look into the Airforce...They just get better training in their job fields, they treat their people better, and they have great facilities.
 
I just finished up a meeting with my recruiter.
My mom took it better then I expected, all the info and such.

He told me about a pre-enlistment program and future soldier stuff that if I exploit I could go in as a E-3.
 
I was USAF '81-'87 and my middle son is in right now...so I am biased a bit. I would say that you should probably talk with recruiters from each branch. However, if you have a dream then follow it. I stressed this to my son and he made sure he would be working on aircraft. This was his dream and he loves what he is doing. You can't go back and change things...especially as you get older. The military was a great thing for me and it is turning out to be a great thing for my boy.
 
"Do not get me wrong...the Army has its advantages but they do not exceed the advantages of becoming a member of one of the best branches of the military, the USAF. Anyone can become an infantryman, anyone can become a ground pounder, anyone can become a desk jockey but it takes a special individual to become an Airman. The USAF just doesn't take anybody anymore. You have to meet a certain criteria. You will be elite just by joining."

Hey Bro! This is Bullshit! While in Afghanistan I was attached to a ARMY Special Forces ODA. We had a USAF Combat Controller attached to us. He know he shit and called in some major hurt on the Taliban, but he was one guy among some bad ass Soldiers.

You are right that the USAF special ops community is a breed above, but only a breed above the majority of the USAF personal. To say that they are in anyway better than the Army Rangers or Navy SEAL's is just plan wrong. As O/P said in his post, every one of us have a part in the puzzle and doing your job is what makes the machine run.

Now I take the comment that "anyone can become a Infantryman, anyone can become a ground pounder as an insult. I enlisted in the Army as a Infantryman and I am damn proud of it. Joining the USAF will not make you ELITE... When you graduate from Pararescue, Combat Controller or SERE school and get your ass in the fight, then you can call yourself ELITE.

I would say that there are great job offerings in all branches of the service. Check them all out and see what fits for you. One more thing, don't join the Military just for collage money or for some thought of getting training for a job in the outside world, that is the wrong way to get started. Getting the collage money and skills is just a part of it, a bonus so to speak. Do it because you want to be a part of something that matters and give it all you have.
 
Thank you much Recon, thanks all you input is important to me.
I am weighing my options but bottom line is that I want to become a Ranger, I hope I make it.
From there I dont know what I will do, further my training and maybe try for 18X.
I will try to be the best, because I figure if you are going to do it you should do it full.
 
Thank you much Recon, thanks all you input is important to me.
I am weighing my options but bottom line is that I want to become a Ranger, I hope I make it.
From there I dont know what I will do, further my training and maybe try for 18X.
I will try to be the best, because I figure if you are going to do it you should do it full.

One step at a time, if, and that’s a big if, you made it in the Rangers then you would put in to go to Special Forces Assessment and Selection( SFAS). If I remember right the 18x program is just for new enlistees.
 
One step at a time, if, and that’s a big if, you made it in the Rangers then you would put in to go to Special Forces Assessment and Selection( SFAS). If I remember right the 18x program is just for new enlistees.

Yes you are right, it takes a lot to be a Airborne Ranger.
Its a long process and I could be easily RTF'd but all I can do is physically and mentally prepare for it right now before I am there.
Yeah, the 18x program is only open to recruits but ya knew what I meant. ;)
 
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