ATC LaGana Vietnam Tomahawk

Joined
Jan 22, 1999
Messages
2,414
As most regular forumites probably know, the American Tomahawk Company has reintroduced Peter LaGana's original Vietnam Tomahawk. Several reproductions of this famous hawk have been offered over the years but, while the design always appealed to me, none motivated me enough for me to make a purchase... that is, until now. The ATC Vietnam hawk is the first authorized version and closely follows LaGana's original design spec with five hand ground cutting edges. I knew I'd have to have one.

I brought mine up to our camp the past two weekends and thought I'd share some of my impressions. My first thoughts on holding it were it's small & light, relative to my other hawks & khukuris, that is. Its weight and size do translate, however, to a CQB tool that is VERY quick and maneuverable in the hand. Also, it's 13 1/2" handle is more suited to cramped conditions than the 18" or so handles on my other hawks. MMurray recently posted an excellent review of the LaGana hawk from a CQB perspective, testing its performance against leather, flesh & bone. Although I did take it through a series of drills, my actual uses were much tamer -- some utility work & a bunch of throwing.

My hawk target consists of a pile of large logs arranged in a triangular manner. Some of the logs were several years old and had begun to rot so I decided to replace them with fresh ones. After dismantling & rebuilding the target, I was left with the issue of what to do with the old logs. Normally, I'd just throw them back in the forest for nature to finish the decomposition process. However, since I had a new toy, I decided to speed up the process a bit. ;) Although the log I picked for my work out had begun to rot, it still had enough structural integrity remaining to provide somewhat of a challenge but it was really no contest. Both main cutting edge & spike did a great job of tearing the 12" + log apart in a very short period of time.

Since the haft (i.e., handle) on this hawk enters the bottom of the head & is secured in place with a wedge from the top, there is the possibility of the head loosening from strenuous work. Sure enough, as I was finishing my demolition project, I could feel that the head had loosened somewhat as I was pulling it loose of the wood. It was not wobbly loose but, by carefully grabbing the head & moving the handle, it was possible to shift it around a bit. Andy Prisco, ATC's co-founder, had previously acknowledged the issue of head looseness and offered some tips for dealing with it. Although it did loosen somewhat, at no time did I feel like I was in danger of head & handle going their separate ways. Here's what Andy had to say about the design of this hawk's eye, "The new ATC Vietnam Tomahawk "eye" provides what we call a "Step Lock", where the upper dimension of the eye is larger than the lower half, separated by a small ledge or "step", over which the wedged hickory spreads and locks." Anyway, a couple of shots with a rubber mallet later, and I was good to go again.

Since I had a new target & I already had a hawk in hand, I figured it was time to play. ;) Now, I have to admit & ATC does tell you right up front that this hawk is not designed as a thrower. Oh, but does it throw well! :D Since the handle is shorter, it was necessary for me to take a step closer to my target in order to get the right amount of rotation. I won't know if it's simply the fact that I'm closer than usual but I find that I am very accurate with the LaGana. Here's a shot showing a dead-on bull's eye:
LaGanaHawk3sm.jpg


As with hard work, the head does loosen after a couple of throws but it's an easy fix & a small price to pay for the satisfying sound of that THUNK as it hits the target. I may try soaking the head in linseed oil for a few days to see if it will penetrate the wood enough to swell the fibers & lock the head in place long-term. I'm also considering removing the wedge & handle, coating the inside of the eye with epoxy, and then refitting everything but I'll hold off on that for a while. ATC has mentioned that they are considering an upgraded handle option that will eliminate the loosening. In the meantime, the slack that develops is something that I can live with & easily correct.

The ATC LaGana hawk is an excellent CQB tool that I'm happy to have added to my collection. I'm looking forward to practicing some more hawk drills and, on the lighter side, doing a lot more tossing with it.
 
Dear Brian,
When you make a tomahawk, use a tomahawk eye/handle profile.
Most "modern improvements" are not. The taper fit of a proper tomahawk handle tightens, rather than loosens, during use.
Did my Competition Hawk that you bought and tested earlier loosen up during throwing and camp chores?
TWO HAWKS
http://www.2hawks.net
 
Brian...you have our sincere thanks for your well informed performance review posting. We enjoy reading about the experiences of individual customers and it gives us pride to read your review.

Two Hawks...the American Tomahawk Company hand forges its Ranger Tomahawks using the traditional, one degree drift or taper method that you describe...with the handle tightening during use, by virtue of the flared eye and handle.

This attachment method is not possible on the Vietnam Tomahawk, unless we radically changed the dimensions and weight of the design in order to accommodate the attachment feature. However, we come as close to the 1 degree drift method as possible via the "step lock", while offering a "beefy" grip from the reverse tapered and flared handle butt...locking the hand of the user onto the handle during use very similarly to locking the head onto the handle at the tapered eye.

As for your thoughts on what constitutes a "proper" Tomahawk in a post which started as a favorable performance review on our Vietnam Tomahawk, I can only state that nearly 4000 Vietnam Tomahawks saw action in the jungles of SouthEast Asia from 1966 to 1970, using an almost identical handle attachment method.

The "Step-Lock" method has never been marketed or described by the American Tomahawk Company as a "modern improvement" over a traditional "tomahawk/eye handle profile"...rather, it is the attachment method necessary to keep the Vietnam Tomahawk thin, lightweight, fast, secure in the hand, and still strong.
 
You're welcome, Andy. As I've said earlier, I just call 'em as I see 'em.

Originally posted by Two Hawks
...Did my Competition Hawk that you bought and tested earlier loosen up during throwing and camp chores?...

Hi Two Hawks,
For camp chores & when I do my part of the job right & get a solid stick in the target, no, it generally doesn't. However, "bouncers" can cause the head to loosen. Here again, though, it is an easy fix -- simply hitting the top of the handle against the side of a log tightens the head up just fine. The wedge & "step lock" may not be the optimum attachment method for a utility or throwing hawk; however, the LaGana truly is purpose built as a light & compact CQB tool. I can see how modifying its eye to allow for the 1% drift attachment method would radically affect its weight & balance.

Shifting gears, I realized last night that I had commented earlier in ATC's forum about the edge grind on my LaGana. Since I'm talking about its performance here, I think it's worthwhile to repeat my earlier observations. My LaGana is one of the shot blasted models and its edges are ground a bit thinner than the armor-piercing grind on the standard coated ones. Since I don't have both, I can't say just how much thinner. However, my eyeball comparison to my other, non-ATC, hawks indicates that the final edge bevel on my LaGana is steeper. (Don't bother asking me what angle is used since I have no way of measuring it. ;))

Some folks had speculated about the LaGana's draw-cutting ability, given its thick edge. Although mine doesn't have the armor-piercing grind, the edge on mine is still fairly thick. Anyway, I did a few test cuts on some 1/4" nylon cord. It push cut the cord very, very well. Its performance on draw cuts was a bit less impressive but, IMO, not due to the edge geometry as much as the smoothness of the edge grind. For the heck of it, I ran the edge against my leg & was rewarded with a nice bald patch for my trouble. This puppy shaved but the edge was so smooth that it didn't bite all the way through the cord on a single draw cut.

I'm going to leave the angle of the edge just as it is. The slightly rougher edge that I will probably get after eventually sharpening it myself should improve its draw cutting "bite". BTW, I just tested the edge again right now. Even after demolishing one log & countless throwing impacts into another, it still shaves hair from my leg. Before anyone asks, yes, I did use the upper portion of the edge -- where most of the impact took place -- for the shaving test. The edge grind may be steeper than most are used to seeing but it appears to have made it very durable. Even using my 8 power loupe, I was unable to find any evidence of chipping, rolling, or impacting.
 
Dear Brian,

Sounds like they did it right on the edge geometry. People should not criticize ATC for what they perceive as a "heavy" edge. An axe needs to be thicker behind the edge than a knife to resist impact; the trick is to come up with a grind that meets that goal and is still razor sharp. That's the purpose behind a properly designed convex grind. Based on the performance you report, they obviously found the formula, and are using good steel in their heads.

I still don't like a "hammer handle" eye design for a tomahawk, but I am a traditionalist. The taper eye has worked well for a long time, and I'm going to stick with it. One of the advantages of the traditional design is that if you break a handle in the field it's not too hard to whittle a replacement out of a spruce limb and rough fit it to the head - without a wedge. Most of my customers use their hawks a long ways from a hardware store.

Thanks for your interesting and informative product reviews ... keep up the good work!

Best regards,
TWO HAWKS
http://www.2hawks.net
 
I dropped a second, smaller, wedge in right next to the original & the looseness problem is gone. It held up to a weekend of throwing & tearing up some more items around camp w/o loosening at all.
 
Two Hawks :

An axe needs to be thicker behind the edge than a knife to resist impact

While this is true, to clarify, the edge of the knife that the above refers to is *very* thin, for example ground at 5-10 degrees per side, see for example Lee's book on sharpening. Axes for woodwork are ground at very thin angles as compared to "tactical" knives, depending on the type of wood, the angles are 10-15 degrees per side, lightly convex. See the Gransfors Bruks products for example.

Now, a 'Hawk on the other hand is a very different tool. You want that to not only be able to handle heavy impacts on bone, but also if you miss the target (or go through it, consider small game), and the worst happens which is a hard impact off of an acute edge on a rock, the face should be able to resist the damage enough so as to not destroy the functionality. Try this with an axe and you could break the bit so badly that you would need to redo the primary grind.


I still don't like a "hammer handle" eye design for a tomahawk

Andy Prisco has never put forth the idea that the design of the Vietnam Tomahawk, specifically the head/handle attachment is superior to a taper attachment, which is also used on several ATC 'Hawk models. In fact he has made it very clear that this is <b>not</b> the case in regards to strength of attachment. For reference :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160083

The trade off for the speed, compact size, and light weight is a smaller handle and a smaller eye.

There are simply other considerations, as with everything, and the optimum design in regards to weight is as close to no taper as possible (as otherwise the eye will be below strength tolerances at the tapered end). So Prisco had to chose between a slimmer head or a more secure join and he went with the traditional design - after I am sure an extensive period of R&D. The latter I am very confident of as I have spoken with him on related issues and he takes the performance of his products very seriously, as much as anyone I have seen and more than most.

The taper eye has worked well for a long time, and I'm going to stick with it. One of the advantages of the traditional design is that if you break a handle in the field it's not too hard to whittle a replacement out of a spruce limb and rough fit it to the head - without a wedge.

This is true. For example I intentionally broke the handle on the ATC-spike I had and it was quite simple to make a functional replacement. Now, you are not going to achieve the same level of functionality as the handle it comes with, as ATC has done a very good job there with the pointed teardrop profile which lends *exceptional* security in regards to rotations, while still achievnig a high level of comfort. It would take me quite some time and effort to whittle that. Still, in any kind of "survival" situation, the first thing I would do it craft a couple of replacement handles.

-Cliff
 
Cliff -
Some excellent information, and good comments on the advantages of the teardrop eye in the spike (Ranger) hawk! What started as my brief question/comment on one small area of hawk head design that showed up as a problem in a test has turned into an in-depth discussion of design and engineering features for tomahawks/axes.

Two comments/suggestions:
(1) I think we're beginning to get away from concentrating on Andy's LaGana hawk, which was the original purpose of this thread ... unfortunately I have contributed to this by expanding on the original comment in reply to other posts re: tomahawk design principles.
(2) There is a real place for an ongoing discussion of engineering, design features, field use, and history as these apply to tomahawks and other axes. There are lots of threads for this type of discussion for tactical knives, camp knives, survival knives, etc. and every other type of blade you can imagine except the chopping tools we're discussing here.

MODERATOR: WHAT ARE YOUR SUGGESTIONS? CAN WE GET A NEW FORUM CATEGORY GOING FOR THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION ON TOMAHAWKS AND CAMP AXES?
Cliff's above contribution would make a very good first entry in the new forum area!!!

TWO HAWKS
http://www.2hawks.net
 
Two Hawks: I got halfway through your post, and started thinking that we need a hawk talk forum. Perhaps ATC could moderate, or perhaps you two hawks. I dunno. I'll e-mail this thread to Spark, and maybe he'll do a poll.
 
FWIW, I'd like to see a dedicated forum set up too. There seems to be a lot of recent interest in the topic & quite a bit of good information has been posted in various forums - Reviews, Wilderness, Custom, HI, ATC, etc. However, the lack of a devoted place to discuss these tools may be limiting discussion somewhat as well as making information more difficult to find. For example, Patte Gauche recently posted some great information on using epoxy to repair handles & to make laminated handles in the ATC forum. The search term "handle repair" did turn up the thread, along with 104 others, the vast majority of which had nothing to do with tomahawks.
 
To give the question of a dedicated tomahawk & camp axe general discussion forum more exposure, I just set up a poll in the General Forum.
 
Crayola-
There is an inherent conflict of interest in having a tomahawk maker as moderator of a forum open to a wide range of discussion on other maker's hawks. I have declined a moderator post for that reason (and the fact that I can't make stuff as fast as it sells already and can't honestly commit the time necessary).
But thanks very much for the vote of confidence. I will try to contribute when I have useful information about whatever is under discussion and thereby make my reference library at least partially accessible to folks with questions.
TWO HAWKS
http://www.2hawks.net
 
That is cool Two Hawks. I don't know who would be a good moderator except for a Hawk maker. I couldn't do it, as I don't have a hawk, and know very little about them. Hmm, I know who could do it!
BRIAN!!!

Bye the way Two Hawks, I love your Woodsman and Longhunter Hawks.

As far as ATC hawks go, I think I'd be prone to get a Vuetnam Hawk for fun, and one of the Ranger hawks for chuckin' and choppin' :cool:
 
Brian.....

Thanks for the informative posts! I have a Ranger Hawk I had a great time thumping into driftwood on the coast out here last weekend, and am looking forward to taking delivery on my "Laganahawk" with which I left an order on ATC's voice mail last week.

AL
 
Back
Top