ATS-34 vs. CPM 154 CM workability

[Tom Lewis]

In stock removal, I have made hundreds of ATS-34 knives. Recently the steel supplier whom I trust has stopped handling ATS-34. Since CPM 154 CM is very close to ATS-34, I have begun to use it.
When I ground the blades profile, and drilled the holes, I didn't notice any difference. But when I went to taper the tangs I got a surprise. I was used to using Klingspor 36 grit Zircona belts, and could taper over twenty 1/8" thick ATS-34 blades.
When I went to taper the CPM 154, the Zircona didn't begin to cut. I went to a 3M 977 36 grit belt and it worked well, but I doubt I will be able to taper more than 15 tangs with one belt.
When I ground the bevels on ATS-34, I used a 60 grit Norton Hogger, and could do maybe 25 blades with one belt. With the CPM 154 steel, I have done ten and can maybe do five more.
When I ground the mill scale off the flats on ATS-34, I used a Klingspor 220 J flex belt, and could do five blades. On the CPM 154, the Klingspor 220 belt doesn't cut at all. I had to go to a 3M 977 in 120 grit.
I thought maybe the CPM 154 steel had not been annealed, but I checked on my Rockwell hardness tester, and the ATS and 154 steel tested the same.
I can use the CPM 154 steel, but am surprised at the difference in working it compared to ATS-34.
Anyone else notice this?

 

[John L]

Tom: I make slipjoints and have terrible luck with CPM154. Cracking even very small blades in heat treat. Other slipjoint makers have found the same thing. Now using 154cm or ATS34.

 

[kc custom]

The only difference I've noticed in cpm steels and this includes sandvik is it seems to grind smoother
if that makes any sense. 95% of the steel I use is Ats-34.
Ken.

 

[jdm61]

As for the mill scale, tt may be the "type" of scale as opposed to the steel. I bought some CPM 3V recently and it had a very thin layer of the hard shiny scale kind of like the "borax" scale I get when making damascus. It was tough stuff just like when I see it on 1084/15N20. I find that stuff to be much harder than the typical rough "decarb" scale you typically see. Once the scale was gone, the 3V was not hard to grind using Blaze belts. it did seem to build up heat more quickly. The good news is that the 3V require much less "clean up" than some hot rolled stock.

In stock removal, I have made hundreds of ATS-34 knives. Recently the steel supplier whom I trust has stopped handling ATS-34. Since CPM 154 CM is very close to ATS-34, I have begun to use it.
When I ground the blades profile, and drilled the holes, I didn't notice any difference. But when I went to taper the tangs I got a surprise. I was used to using Klingspor 36 grit Zircona belts, and could taper over twenty 1/8" thick ATS-34 blades.
When I went to taper the CPM 154, the Zircona didn't begin to cut. I went to a 3M 977 36 grit belt and it worked well, but I doubt I will be able to taper more than 15 tangs with one belt.
When I ground the bevels on ATS-34, I used a 60 grit Norton Hogger, and could do maybe 25 blades with one belt. With the CPM 154 steel, I have done ten and can maybe do five more.
When I ground the mill scale off the flats on ATS-34, I used a Klingspor 220 J flex belt, and could do five blades. On the CPM 154, the Klingspor 220 belt doesn't cut at all. I had to go to a 3M 977 in 120 grit.
I thought maybe the CPM 154 steel had not been annealed, but I checked on my Rockwell hardness tester, and the ATS and 154 steel tested the same.
I can use the CPM 154 steel, but am surprised at the difference in working it compared to ATS-34.
Anyone else notice this?

 

[Walt2]

I have never used ATS34 but I have made a large number of CPM154 hunters and skinners. I use Norton Blaze 120 grit or Norton 220 grit for the type of grinding you are describing and have had no failed grinding issues.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I switched from ATS-34/154CM to CPM154 years back and have noticed no problems. I have never had a single blade break or crack in HT.

I find that a 120 grit blue zirc belt leaves a surprisingly smooth finish on CPM154.