Ats-34

In my opinion...........
ATS 34 = Ancient history!!!!!!!
I realize this isnt the most popular statement....but lets look at the facts..
154CM......Popularized by bob loveless.......back in the 70s!!??
ATS 34-An improvement on 154CM by Hitachi over 16 years ago...
Today we have Crucible CPM steels that outperform these two steels by mulitple increments.........I am talking cutting 5X longer!!!!!!!!
420V, 3V, 440V, 10V..........and then theres BG 42...the new standard. It takes a better edge and holds it longer than ATS 34.
We are moving forward!! Lets do it together and not resist change! :)
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
In my opinion...........
ATS 34 = Ancient history!!!!!!!
I realize this isnt the most popular statement....but lets look at the facts..
154CM......Popularized by bob loveless.......back in the 70s!!??
ATS 34-An improvement on 154CM by Hitachi over 16 years ago...
Today we have Crucible CPM steels that outperform these two steels by mulitple increments.........I am talking cutting 5X longer!!!!!!!!
420V, 3V, 440V, 10V..........and then theres BG 42...the new standard. It takes a better edge and holds it longer than ATS 34.
We are moving forward!! Lets do it together and not resist change! :)
Click to expand...

Mr. Mayo. You have a valid point. Now could you expand your opinion and tell us which steels would you choose ATS-34 and/or 154CM over. I am not disagreeing with you, I just think there are several knives out there in ATS-34 that for "general" use by the "general" public that will perform and function well, if not better, to do the job.

The second section of my query is: In your opinion, how much valve is the design of a knife towards the overall intended function and sucessful use regardless of the steel?

Please understand that I am as big a "steel snob" as anyone. I have just realized that the 154CM blade I purchased in the 70's continues to perform and is as functional for my use as ever.

Thank you for your time.
 
S

samwereb

Joined
Aug 3, 1999
Messages
441
How popular do you fellows think ATS-34 would be, here in the U.S. if it was referred to as HITACHI ATS-34? (Which is what it is.)
 
I think I concur with most of that. I'm curious, also, if you you have a direct answer to the question. Hawaii, has a large Japanese population. Surely the prevaling attitude their, regarding Japanese goods, is different than that, here, in the Midwest.<p>(With all due respect, Mr. Mayo, there are some awfully good brands of decaffeinated coffee on the market...:) )
 
I'm with Mayo on this one. There are lots of better steels nowadays. That said, I still bought a knife made from ATS34 last night. It was made by a friend of mine, and has a very thin flat ground blade, and I know who heat treated it(Paul Bos). Those factors make all the difference with ATS34 blades; the heat treat and the grind.
 
We are showing our stogieness folks :).
Put me down for 1084, L6, D2 and 52100 in no particular order as my very favorites.

I am coming around though I do like the crucible steels (quite a bit).
I have also become a fan of Talonite and Stellite 6K. (They make fantastic white-water resucue knives).

"Aint" it a good thing that we as knife users, collectors and makers have such a wide variety of choices.
 
Hey, I'm as big a steel snob as anybody, and I think 154CM (better than ATS-34 lately) is fine for most purposes, even tactical. I'll continue to use it even though S30V should perform better on almost all scores, because it will be cheaper to machine and is likely to take a better polish for those who want a mirror. RWL-34 (made in Sweden) is superior to both ATS-34 and 154CM even though it has virtually the same formula, adding just 0.2% Vanadium to the mix. Powder matallurgy and that little bit of Vanadium makes it an amazingly fine grained stainless. But it's pricey, and not needed unless you really want a super mirror finish.

CPM-3V is superior to any other steel I've tried by a wide margin, but it rusts and a lot (make that a LOT) of people don't like rust.

Which will sell best? The one that gives the user the most of what he's looking for.
 
A more serious answer regarding steel is that I like a lot of them.

Generally, I am a fan of forged carbon steel blades and but I have collected knives made from many different steels, carbon, stainless, and damascus.

I have fewer stainless steel knives, but there are several made from ATS-34/440C/and 420V. I like the technology behind the newer crucible steels, and find 420V to be fantastic for small folders. I will no doubt buy something with 3V, or Sandvik 12C27, or stainless damascus, or 1084 next. I really don't know, because I buy each knife individually, and the choice of steel is just part of what makes each knife different, collectible, useful, and valuable to me.

I like having a lot of different choices. There is no best steel for all things. I like it that way, it makes life more interesting. What worked in the past will still work well, but there is no reason to eschew new technology either. ;)

Paracelsus, not a Ludditte
 
I really don't think that it would make a difference to most of the knife buying public. They don't give a hoot where the steel was made. A lot of people want things that are made in Japan these days. They are hoping to avoid things made in Korea, Taiwan, Malasia, Singapore or China and consider Japanese made things to much higher quality. For the most part they are correct.

When it comes to higher priced custom knives you are dealing with a more knowledgeable group and many are willing to pay more for a better steel. The CPM steels are great, but boy are they expensive. You will not see them being used on the mid priced production knives unless somehow the price is reduced. This might happen, but don't count on it being in the near future. Crucible would have to figure out how to make it in a less expensive way or sell a whole lot more of it to bring the price down.

BTW, I think that CPM3V is one of the best steels out there and want to try CPM30V the new stainless version of CPM3V.

You will probably see more knives that use 154CM (it would be nice to see more American companies switch to this steel as it is made in the U.S.), BG42 and D2 coming out in a similar price range to those made with ATS34, but for the foreseeable future, I think ATS34 is going to stay very popular.
 
Originally posted by Jerry Hossom
RWL-34 (made in Sweden) is superior to both ATS-34 and 154CM even though it has virtually the same formula, adding just 0.2% Vanadium to the mix. Powder matallurgy and that little bit of Vanadium makes it an amazingly fine grained stainless. But it's pricey, and not needed unless you really want a super mirror finish.

CPM-3V is superior to any other steel I've tried by a wide margin, but it rusts and a lot (make that a LOT) of people don't like rust.
Click to expand...

Good commentary Jerry.

Follow up questions:

1. How much pricier is RWL-34 vs 154CM in raw stock form? 10%? 50%? Worse? As an example, on a 4" blade, how much would RWL-34 add to the price over a 154CM blade from your shop? Assume mirror polish.

2. Would you compare 3V's propensity to rust with something comparable for us?... how does it compare to, say, A2 and D2?
 
Well I see none of us has blown up our computers! :D
 
I bought my RWL-34 from Germany, and it cost about $100 for a meter of knife stock with the shipping. I think Michael Walker sells it here in the US though. So that's over 100% more than the same quantity and size of 154CM. The price difference in a knife from my shop would obviously depend on the size of the knife, but likely in the $50-75 range. I don't make small knives. The finish this stuff takes is just unbelievable. Steve Johnson commented that it's like looking into a pool of Mercury and he's right. It takes a fantastic edge as well.

3V is a little slower to rust than A2, about the same as D2 maybe. It's just that the rust is so destructive to the finish in 3V. By the time you see any rust, it has already pitted the steel pretty deeply, so the spots are there to stay. Lately, I've been Ferric Chloride etching all my 3V blades. This smoothes the finish some when I brush it and leaves protective oxides on the surface, giving it a nice patina. The etched blades don't rust nearly as easily as clean steel.
 
I haven't made enough knives to know my arse from my elbow but the RWL-34 I used seemed way superior to ATS...worth a look for sure. :)
 
So RWL 34 is one of the components of Damasteel. Very interesting. I have tried a couple of knives with Damasteel blades and have liked them very much. I never have had the chance to use a knife with a pure RWL 34 blade. Hopefully I will one of these days.
 
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