Attack Of The Sheeple!!!

Originally posted by calyth
I think if the state laws says fine, the company rules shouldn't be able to limit your freedom.
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I do disagree with you here, though I think it would be completely fair and appropriate for them to follow state laws.

Where I disagree is that if a private company doesn't want you to wear green shirts at work, you simply can't wear them....company policy. They do have the right to make policies (however weird) and have employees follow them.

What would be important to find out is if pocket knives are forbidden in the Employee Handbook and if Manji signed an employee statement saying he would abide by company policies. If so, he can be reprimanded for carrying a knife. If not, he might have grounds for "appeal" to the Human Resources Manager because of his manager using too much latitude on enforcing non-existent policy.

Food for thought.
 
I guess I am in a totally opposite situation. Working at a knife shop almost requires you to carry a knife. I use mine all the time!:)
 
Originally posted by UsmcChet9296
I remember when that happened and i also remember what you said wasn't just something that could be taken as a joke. Funny thing there is always 2 sides to a story. Hey I am a big gun nut and a slightly bitter ex-grunt but I know better than to talk about guns and "going postal" around here. Im sure that goes for all places of employment. Think before you speak and you may keep your job.
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Obviously, and I can sympathise with an adverse reaction to what I said. I made a valid attempt to reason and apologise personally with the threatened individual because I considered him a freind. I dont own guns and I am not a bitter ex-grunt, and I have never attacked anybody in either malice or self-defense. I was pretty immature in my reactions after I was fired and paid for it, that is why I offer the advice of calm resolve.

But in truth it was a joke...and even the person who ended up reporting it was laughing as if it was one. Of course unless you are him you have no idea what I said. I recal saying "If 'blank' doesnt promote me soon I am gonna go postal and gun down everybody and thier mother" then the lead said "hehe, well shoot for my legs not my knees so I can walk again." then we laughed. Later I was told I threatened my manager and his family wich is true because his mother is his family. But I think if he was there in person it would have been aparrent it held no malice. The supervisor that felt threatened...since you seem to know who he is you prob are familiar with this...made jokes about executing us almost every morning meeting.

I consider it a great blessing that it happened, I learned much from it and am far more successful at what I do now. Earthlink and the people who were supposedly afraid of me were wrong in thier acions and interpritations, period. It was understood by the police, the courts and almost everyone else that works there, just ask em. Now I can happily threaten the lives of my current coworkers and supervisors because they know it is in jest, they happily threaten me back. I do think before I speak, but even more so now. I thought it would not be taken seriously...I thought wrong. I am happy with the results, though. I got a job doing what I love, working with people who are mature enough to make jokes with eachother.

To say you may keep your job is BS, if you really knew the story you would know Earthlink wanted me gone long before that night. And besides....who on this planet would want that crap-ass job anywho.

Neet to be recognised by a possible former coworker....hope you arnt scared of me:p

BOO!
 
Good point, Ron. (No pun intended :D)
But remember that Calyph is from Canada so their workplace laws might be differantly enforced/applied than ours down here in the States.
If anything, this thread shows that if you carry your cutlery to work, you'd best keep it out of sight from the sheeple there and failing that, at least have a good reason ready ("It's my pocketknife and I open envelopes, boxes etc with it.") for why you are in possession of it.;)
Also be sure to read up on what is and isn't allowed in the workplace, just to save yourself future headaches. I still think Manji's manager is a blithering idiot who is badly in need of a reality check but if she has the company rules on her side he is just plain screwed if they want to push it.
 
Originally posted by Ron@SOG
I do disagree with you here, though I think it would be completely fair and appropriate for them to follow state laws.

Where I disagree is that if a private company doesn't want you to wear green shirts at work, you simply can't wear them....company policy. They do have the right to make policies (however weird) and have employees follow them.

What would be important to find out is if pocket knives are forbidden in the Employee Handbook and if Manji signed an employee statement saying he would abide by company policies. If so, he can be reprimanded for carrying a knife. If not, he might have grounds for "appeal" to the Human Resources Manager because of his manager using too much latitude on enforcing non-existent policy.

Food for thought.
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I tend to agree with Ron@SOG, but I also tend to question and/or ignore rules I don't hink make sense. For example, I questioned the provisions of our new Employee handbook with which I disagree and have not signed or returned the acknowledgement page. I also have a Benchmade 806D2 in my pocket right now. I say wear that green shirt--Just be willing to take responsibility for/pay the price of your decision.
 
Than why did you even put yourself in a possition to have them question your continued employment. I do know your sup and I do know about the incident. Yeah it can be argued that ELN blew this way out of porportion but than again can you expect a company as big as ELN just to say "Aw he was just joshin"? I don't think so. Hey chalk this up to a learning expierance and remember to keep comments like that out of the work place.
Just my 2 cents
 
I think I have stated it was a learning experiance. If you want to know my motivaion it was simply that I felt comfortable enough to talk like that. It was not ELN's reaction that surprised me, they are a corporation and can be expected to react this way. It was the reactions of the individuals whom I considered freinds essentialy betraying me and innacurately interpretating statements no more threatening then thier own. It is pertinent I think to the acual subject of this thread (which you and I have been deviating from in our own personal conversation) it pays to be cautious in that environment were even things that seem perfectly harmless to you can be hugely misunderstood by a manager and/or coworker.

I also emphasize it is not like that everywhere. I worked directly for FOX for a time. A much bigger and more prominent corporation than Earthlink will ever hope to be, and I didnt have to censor myself one bit. Beleive me it took a long time to get comfortble about making jokes but I realized that there are places, even faceless corporations that can be understanding and even enviting to free thoughtless speech. You just cant assume that is true, you must know it. It is a rare day at my current office to not see someone bashing another person with a baseball bat, shooting eachother with blowguns, or screaming threats of greivous testicular harm....its all in good fun.

Be yourself, but be careful is the lesson I learned.

And UsmcChet9296, you can keep comments like that to yerself at work...you have to. Not me, I dont have to anymore.

Oh.....and Welcome to BladeForums.:D
 
I work for the County, and the "Employee Handbook" strictly forbids the carrying of any dangerous weapons while on the County Property, while conducting County Business, now the Handbook doesn't define or describe what a dangerous weapon is, so I carry a lot of knives, I mean if ya had a choice of items to pick from as a weapon, would ya really pick a knife?, do ya wanna have to get that close?

The best part is after they go over the rules, and regs, they give me my tools for my job, and what's the first thing on the check list was, you guessed it, a knife. A POS electricians knife, I told my boss keep the knife I'll use my own, at my own risk, if it breaks the County doesn't have to pay to replace it. Hell they probably couldn't afford it anyway.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by T. Erdelyi
I work for the County, and the "Employee Handbook" strictly forbids the carrying of any dangerous weapons while on the County Property, while conducting County Business, now the Handbook doesn't define or describe what a dangerous weapon is...
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In a case like this, I always point toward local and state laws to define "weapon." Almost always, it will outline firearms, switchblades/gravity knives, explosives, and concealed knives of over a certain length (and similar stuff). A modest folding knife is 99% of the time perfectly "legal" to be carried and concealed according to most laws I've read.

So if a company policy leaves it this vague, lawmakers should be giving the direction, no some sheeple idiot.

For the record, I don't think lawmakers are doing all that great of a job defining and governing weapons, these days. But unless we live in an anarchist society, we have a law structure in place and it will serve us very well...most of the time.
 
My first reaction to these kid of this is to first laugh at stupidity, then to be sadened by it. :) ->:mad:

My Catholic highschool proves that knives aren't the problem. About half the students carried the knives every day. Not a single injury ever happened!

Not only that, almost every day jokes were made about killing\harming teachers or classmates. No one ever took it seriously, no one ever got in any kid of trouble.

Basicly its the same thing at work. So I have nothing to really worry about.:D

MAybe its cuz all us hics liven here in KC.
 
MicMurry, I used to live an hour away from KC, in Warrensburg MO.

10 years ago, in that golden day and age, kids were allowed to talk all they wanted about shooting their .22's (and even .45's) and their skinning knives, etc. I used to bring an SAK to school.

Had some pretty psycho-looking friends back then, but we never got into trouble. I even remember joking about school shootings. If it were now, we probably would have been questioned and our homes would have been searched.

Glad to hear that there's still some outposts of knifedom out there in KC. :)

Manji, did you take the knife out for cleaning *after* doing something work-related? Does your job involve tasks where you might need a knife? If not, I wouldn't have taken out the knife. Without a clear reason for having the knife out, it's considered "fondling" :) And I don't think you should do that in public places.
 
Originally posted by Ron@SOG
A modest folding knife is 99% of the time perfectly "legal" to be carried and concealed according to most laws I've read.
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Agreed. But I think that people are carrying bigger knives now than they were 20-30 years ago. Back then, knives were heavier and didn't have clips. When I started carrying a knife, the largest one I could comfortably carry was a 3 spring SAK or a 3 1/2" slipjoint. I carried a 5" closed knife, a Buck 110, in a sheath. And most indoor-working people didn't carry sheath knives. But today, I carried a 4" closed knife clipped to my pocket, and I was wearing dress pants. With the micarta scales and clip, I didn't even notice the knife. I guess what I'm trying to say is that some people might have a different reaction to seeing a Case Peanut being pulled out of a pocket and unfolded as opposed to having the coworker wave out that Emerson in 1/4 of a second and cut that bagel.

So if a company policy leaves it this vague, lawmakers should be giving the direction, no some sheeple idiot.
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Yeah, we have basically the same wording. We're a local agency and have a wide variety of jobs. As far as I know it's up to the department head to make the call whether knives can be carried, but I don't know of any that restrict knives. I see people in almost all of the departments, even the pure administration departments, with knives clipped to pockets. My division issues multitools to whoever asks for one.
 
Your experience is directly related to what Pat Bucanhan calls the Death of the West, in his book by that name. This country is being turned inside out and upside down by the liberals. Last year, pre-9/11, my friends' 10 year old grandson brought a GI Joe to public school. The action figure was carrying a little plastic rifle, about the size of a toothpick. My friend was called at home to come pick the kid up because he brought a weapon to school. He was suspended for 10 days and threatened with expulsion if it happened again. Also, in a recent issue of Blade, a reader from Wyoming wrote in about the negative experience he had while trying to buy a pocketknife at a hardware store, that was to be a gift for his neice. PURE INSANITY.
 
15 years ago, in Canada, I carried a fixed blade to high school every day, wrote about things in the school paper that would probably get me serious jail time if written in high school nowadays (but were at that time a great source of amusement to faculty and students alike), and was generally an anarchist little miscreant. In elementary school I used to draw 'army' pictures, usually featuring dismemberment of some sort, and played with toy guns almost exclusively. My friends were no different. I have also never been in a fight of any sort, I don't drink or do drugs, I have never been arrested, and I have a happy marriage. Anyone who seriously believes that kids are being made into killers by pocket knives or toy guns is a complete and total idiot. Anyone who would arrest a schoolkid for drawing ANYTHING is a criminal of the most damnable sort.
 
I was just thinking about our Employee Handbook. It does talk about "no dangerous weapons" (or something like that) in the workplace.

You can clearly tell that SOG doesn't feel that any of our products are considered "dangerous weapons!" :D
 
Too bad so many people have no common sense. At my work it is very different. I work at a hazardous waste facility, and most of the guys on the plant carry and use various knives every day. Although the company policy forbids weapons, it is up to the discretion of the facility manager what constitutes a weapon. And since, as of this week, that is me, I have no problems at work. We even occasionally bring guns in to have gunsmithing done by one of the employees (of course, we are careful to park our cars on the street and keep the guns in the car, with the transfer taking place at the trunk; that way we never have a firearm on company property). Year before last my son's jr. high class made a quilt design, with each student submitting a design for their own squares. My son gave them a picture of two guns, and I didn't see it until he had already turned it in. I expressed concern to him about it, but he said his teacher was cool with it. And in Kalifornia, of all places.
 
I think this relates to previous topics that have come and gone about taking knives to Magic Mountin or onto airplanes. I didnt realy respond with my opinion wich is really this: Sure I love knives and carrying them whereever I go. But I also realize I am part of a society, a huge group of people who enmasse can have very different viewpoints then myself. In situations were people may feel uncomfortable about me carrying sharpened steel I am usually compassionate of that. There are certainly situations where I rebel but I dont think the sacrifice too unbearable in situations like amusment parks, airplanes, or going to sit in front of computers and animating dudes catching on fire (my job). I dislike the term "sheeple" because it is a word that barks the same tone as a racial slur. Some of the people I love and respect would be designated as sheeple and I couldn't bring mself to ridicule them in that way.

It may be just me but it doesnt make me feel "less free" to comprimise my habits to help people be more confortable. I create my own freedom and it has nothing to do with government, laws, or any external influence at all. I am sure there is a breaking point, one were my comprimises seem too unbearably unreasonable but I just dont feel my true sense of freedom is withing the reach of law. I may have to fight, I may have to change the world, but these are all desisions I make freely without restriction, and that is what counts to me. To be able to adapt and tolerate is where I think true strength lies. It is taught to us by the very nature of our intrest. Steel without temper is brittle, breaks when it cannot absorb the shock of a fierce blow. True steel has a hard edge, but can flex many degrees and return to its original shape without damage.

Be thankfull when you are among those that understand. Be understanding around those who do not. The even better route then comprimise is education. Help the people understand you, and that you meen not harm but infact great help with your useful knife.


If my counterpart UsmcChet9296 returns to veiw and read this post let me say this: I do not regret losing my job at Earthlink, I rejoice in it. But I regret making my manager and friend feel the negative emotions that resulted from my blatantly careless speach. For the corporatipon I feel nothing, for hurting my former freinds I am deeply ashamed.

I apologize to everyone for previously straying from the subject. I thought relating my own experience would help and did not expect to get caught up in yet another contriversial conversation about it.


-Bryan Beery (the SkinWalkeR) ;)
 
Wow, very well put, Skinwalker. I completely agree with you on the use of the word "sheeple". Here on BF it has really become a kind of focal point for hating non-knife nuts. I'm sure we're all familiar with the oftentimes ridiculous stories that begin with:

"Those !@#$ sheeple!"

Is this really the kind of attitude that we want to adopt?

Your post is also a good reminder to the BF community, that we are also responsible for presenting a good image of knife-carrying and collecting to the public. If everyone takes on the "holy mission" of rebelling against non-knife people, there's going to be tons of trouble. I say use knives when you need them, but don't go waving them around (or cleaning them) for no reason. Some things can wait until you get home.
 
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