Attempting a hamon on O1

Charlie Mike

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It's a relatively small blade, 3/16" and 1" wide with a sharpened length of almost 4". I have refractory cement and will be quenching in 10w30. Can someone tell me what I need to do to achieve a temper line and how the steps differ from a normal HT?
 
all you will be able to manage is a relatively straight line. atf or power steering fluid will work better than motor oil for this. Also clay won't really do much good but can help a little. you have to heat only the edge with a torch and then quench in preheated oil to get any line at all.
 
Wally Hayes told me the same thing about the straight line. I just remember watching one of his Paladin Press videos years ago about this.
 
Would I still need to do the toaster oven temper on a differential hardened blade?
 
You won't get a visible hamon in O1 as its a high hardenability steel (High Mn), great steel, not for hamons IMHO...


Pablo
 
Pablo is right, you want steel with little or no alloying elements to get a nice clear hamon. Chrome and manganese especially are "bad" for hamons; the whole point of adding them to steel is to help it get hard all the way through.

W2, 1095 and 1084 are pretty popular for hamons.
 
Brian Goode gets a nice differential hardening line out of 01, but it is not wavy, it is straight. He does this with tons of patience and experience and a blow torch. 01 is a deep hardening steel, so if you get the steel to critical and quench, it hardens all the way under your refractory coating. If you want a homon you need to use a shallow hardening steel like 1095 or w2.

You'd need to temper it twice either way.
 
Fiddleback, metallurgically speaking, why you say you need double temper on 1095 or W2? I always get them to blue 250C ish and leave them there until the blade temperature is uniform, then tempering is done.
Is it really needed on these low alloy steels? IMHO not.


Pablo
 
The real metalurgists will have to tell you the processes, but it has to do with converting retained austentite. The reason we do everything is so that that is how the process works, and that keeps employee processes simple and consistent.
 
So 2 hours at close to 400F?
 
When the steel is quenched fast enough to pass the pearlite nose, the structure remains austenite ( too slow and it becomes pearlite at 900F). As it cools on down and reaches around 400F, it suddenly starts converting to martensite ( the Ms). When the temp has dropped to about 100-200F this conversion is finished on carbon steels (Mf). The structure is now an untempered martensite called "brittle martensite". Anyone who has tried to straighten a blade at room temp right after the quench knows why it is called that :)

The first temper tempers this into "tempered martensite", which has a structure a tad like pearlite...and thus is much tougher. When the first temper was done, there was also a small amount of retained austenite that never converted in the initial quench. During the rise to 400F and cooling in the first temper, it converts to martensite. The cooling from temper should be rapid and done in room temp or cooler water. This assures the retained austenite converts (slow cooling from 400 between tempers may help stabilize the RA). This new martensite is still brittle, and the second temper converts and toughens it. A blade with only one temper won't snap in half, but the edge may be chippier. Tempers should be at 400F or higher, and there needs to be two. One hour each is sufficient for carbon steels.

During temper, the steel needs to rise back to the Ms to make the changes it needs. Tempering below that will relieve most of the stress, but the blade isn't fully tempered....and thus still has some brittleness. Some people think they are getting a harder blade by staying below the Ms, and tempering at 325-350, even 375F. The thing they don't know is that the hardness isn't appreciably dropped until the Ms is reached. A temper at 350 and one at 425 may only be one or two Rc points apart.


A hamon is the junction of structures mixing pearlite and martensite. There will be wisps or one or the other going both ways, and pockets or dots of hard martensite crystals in the pearlite matrix. The old name for this mix was troosite. A hamon forms when the entire blade is heated to the austenitization point, and the the entire blade is cooled in quench. What forms the hamon is the cooling is varied in some areas due to clay and/or blade thickness.

A temper line is more properly called a quench line, and is a line of demarcation where the heating and cooling has separated the hardened area from the unhardened area. Temper lines will be pretty much straight, as they form along the radiated heat border between two temperature ranges. A temper line forms when the pearlitic blade is heated to austenitization only along the edge. It gets its name from the older method of tempering where the "temper line" was walked down the blade from the spine by gently heating the spine with a torch or hot piece of steel. This line was stopped when it got about 1/3 away from the edge. The resulting temper colors on the blade had a similar look as the line formed in edge quenching. However, a quench line is deep into the steel, and the temper colors are only on the surface.

A hamon will vary a lot depending on how fast the martensite forms and how much rapid cooling happens above the hamon. A temper line varies almost none....just a darker line.
 
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Thanks for chiming in on that Stacey. I try not to answer metalurgy questions often and we basically follow standard practices. That was the easiest explanation of this I've ever read.
 
Charlie Mike, I would recommend through hardening the O1 and tempering the spine back, rather than edge quenching it. If you want the esthetics of a hamon, then use a shallow hardening steel like W1, W2, 1095 or 1075. Even 1084 is a better choice, though it pales compared to the shallow hardening steels. You will be way ahead after all the work to bring it out, and O1 will give you a pretty boring effect.
 
I agree that full hardening is a far better choice for O-1.

With it's alloying, O-1 needs a 5-10 minute soak at 1475F. Pre-heat the oven to 1250F and place the blade in. ramp to 1475F and hold for 10 minutes. Quench in medium speed oil ( canola will be fine). and temper twice at 395F.



For a torch HT steel, try 1084, W2, or 5160. 1084 and W2 will give a hamon. Aldo's Hitachi Blue 3@ will also make a hamon, but you should use an oven to HT it.
 
I just thought of an alternative decorative look that works for these situations. It is sometimes called a faux-mon ( fo-moan). Mask off the areas you want to leave shiny ( usually in a wavy line), and bead or sand blast the exposed part. It makes that area satin and when the masking is removed, the "faux hamon" looks is whitish and crisp. This is how they put the "hamon" on most cheap Chinese katana.
 
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