Gold Member
Dec 23, 1998
This thread is a result of two recent threads concerning Walt and BM and buying over the internet.

It appears that several Manufacturers have alluded to forcing internet sellers to try to sell at higher prices by not listing their marked down prices, so that the store front dealers are not hurt by internet sales. At the same time these manyfacturers claim that internet sales are not a major component.

The knife people who search on the internet are usually people who make knives a hobbie, often buying more than one of each make. These are people that become very knowledgeable about blade, handle,liner materials and lock types , new designs etc. these are the people that you make a civilian or D2 knife for. The regular passerby, will usually by what is prettiest, not what works. We are the ones who give you the feedback you need and if you paid more attention to these forums you would double your production. The fact that we all spend countless hours on the net looking for new knives to buy, should give us the privilage of being able to search for the lowest available price on any item. If you look at the number of members in these forums and multiply that by many friends and family per member that may actually buy something, the number becomes big.

My point is that we provide you with feed back and we do considerable research into what works in our search for the ultimate blade. you take that feedback, if you have any brains, and turn it into a knife we want.For this feedback I only ask that you let business outside of your wholesale sales go on as it always has. After all, do you guys all buy cars at sticker price?
Amen brother! Let the show go on! Free enterprise! All we need is for the gov or industry to stick its nose into internet knife sales. They're already into too much of our lives.
Hey I started a thread on this about spyderco

and you know what NOBODY cares!!
Read that thread. and now that spyderco is here evenless people care.
Greg, you care and I care and if people put their two cents in, the manufacturers will care also.
The fact is that the amount of knives I buy has gone down because internet dealers have begun to be limited in what they can sell and at what prices. I would have already bought a Nimravus, Pinnacle and Axis lock but haven't found good prices until now. Now if the manufacturers limit at what prices the internet dealers can sell their knives at, I will be very reluctant to buy any knives at all.

My first "good" knife purchase was a Benchmade 970s for retail at $149.95. After looking at the internet, my collection of knives over $100 each has gone to twenty knives in a couple of years and many of my friends who never considered buying knives bought several as well.

If it wasn't for the internet I wouldn't have so many knives. The fact is, I drop a lot more capital because of these good prices whereas I would limit myself greatly if I had to pay retail. Overall, I think that is less knife sales for the manufacturers.

Also, the retail stores near my house in Baltimore have incompetent staff members who kno nothing about knives. I prefer internet dealers who stand behind and know the product they are selling. NYC is more of the same unless you go to a couple of custom knife shops.

Jason Yang
Cobalt you right too, but what can be done?
I think we need to boycott the one doing this, it is not because I have anything them. but if I don't like what they do, all you can do is not buy there stuff intill they change.

But like I said nobody else cares, so now what?

We can boycott them but will that matter?(I will even if it doesn't it is a matter of principle)
Got any ideas?
A boycott would not help or do anything. Our numbers are too small on the marketing scale to make a real difference. In time however when internet sales account for nearly 25% or more of their business you will see change. Trust me. After all most knives sold over the internet have a higher per unit sales price then those sold in the stores, gun shows or the marts. Do you think you will see an EDI Genesis at Wal-Mart? They tried the AFCK and it did not do well so I think you will see a market shift before to long.

Those manufacturers who fail to see through the clouded vail they wear will go blind eventually or they will remove the vail. As the market pushes upward on a per unit end user sale price i would bet that manufacturers will look to new markets. Some already have embraced the internet and these will flourish. EDI is just one example and Mission is yet another.

I am sure that Spyderco, Benchmade and others will soon realize that the enemy is not the internet although at first site it would appear to be. There are ways to make the internet a compatible market partner so to speak and I have just scratched the surface. What a tool the internet will be for those who use it wisely.

One thing I find amusing is the resources that some companies put in their web sites yet the internet dealer who uses the same medium is the enemy. Amusing to say the least!

Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

Mike I agree with you too. But the only way I can show I don't like what they are doing is to boycott. And I don't belive it doesn't matter. If everybody stood there ground they would take notice! But I am just dreaming Nobody give a Dam.
I feel VERY strong about this. I will do what I think is right NOT what is the easyest(I think I spelled that wrong)
But I am open for suggestions.

I really didn't want to open this up again, I really lost my cool last time.
And Nobody changed there minds it is a waste of time and space on your server.

[This message has been edited by gregj62 (edited 25 January 1999).]
Hey guys (& gals) - we hear you, we heard you, we understand your point of view. We have not yet heard of a solution that solves the problems from all points of view. only yours. You probably don't pay sticker price for an automobile, but I don't think you will see the dealer put the wholesale price on the sticker. I consider this group to be very astute. I do not understand why you cannot or choose not to understand. Publishing deep discount prices in public domain causes problems for the manufacturers. These are the same manufacturers whose products you seem to enjoy. These are the same manufacturers that extend a great deal of effort to try to create and produce products that you will enjoy. Do you think that these same manufacturers would just make up some cock'n bull story just to cost you more money? Please. The manufacturer doesn't make any more money. They are trying to please a wide range of customers through a distribution system that is less than perfect. If you are in fact the superior knowledge customer, which I believe you probably are, Please try not to blast the manufacturers for trying to do a good job in the eyes of all of our customers.

First of all thanks for answering for manufacturers, that takes cajone's. If all you are saying is that the only limit, from yourself that is, is to not list discount prices over the net, I think we can all live with that since finding out the discount price would only be a phone call or email away.

However, the discussion in point refers more to a recent happening between a board member and another manufacturer. It appears that some internet sellers have not had certain models available to them, and I believe this to be unfortunate. I apologise if it sounded like you were being blamed in any way for recent happenings but it appeared that you might have been headed in that direction and that is what many of us were worried about. Two of our favorite mfg.'s turning away from us. Well, it appears that you are not and lets hope that neither is the other manufacturer.
Sal; thank you very much for your reply. I agree with Cobalt that it took a lot of courage to answer, knowing that you may be subject to considerable invective.

However, I really don't think you are correct when you say that you understand our problem, then add, 'Publishing deep discount prices in public domain causes problems for the manufacturers.'

That was never my (and I believe never the other posters') contention. In the example I used in my original post, the BM experience with AFCK M2's, BM ARTIFICALLY created a 'scarcity', by selling to only two internet dealers at dealer prices. This not only contravened standard practices, but forced many of us to buy knives, not at a discount, as you suggest, but at a price ABOVE RETAIL.

The major issue I was trying to make was BM's error (IMHO) in marketing: the AFCK M2's gathered dust in the BM warehouse, and in the storefront dealers' displays, because BM purposly thwarted motivated buyers from purchasing through normal channels.

Storefront displays were difficult to find, and when a supply of M2's was spotted, often at a discount, or at least at the same price as regular AFCK's, the word spread on the forum, and the knives evaporated.

My true concern is whether or not BM has learned from this experience; a more broad based concern is how do other manufacturers handle the introduction of sophisticated, technologically advanced products?

The issue here is not about discounting. It is about supporting, and listening to, the people who know and care about your product; the informed consumers.

It seems to me that BM violated the cardinal rule of business: GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT. Your comments, questions, or criticisms are welcome. Walt
I think the point Sal was trying to make is that when you have a deep disounted price published. You the manfactuer starts getting complaints from the store front people. One of the first thing they assume is the internet dealer was given a perfered price, they start on that its unfair that the internet dealers dont't have the same overhead etc. etc. We are never going to be able to please everyone with uniform pricing, water and price will eventualy seek their own level. The unfortunate thing about producing a high volume of product is prices are baised as supply and demand. The more you produce the more your going to get price "wars". We are in the process of trying to go more distrubitor based for that removes us from the price loop more than we are now. By the way, I always laugh when Sal calls Spyderco a Small Manufacture. I guess REKAT and EDI then should be listed as itty bitty Manufactures then.

Bob Taylor
All I have to say is this; The other day I was in a knife store and the prices literaly gave me a heart attack. Spyderco civilians were going for $279.00 for the aluminum handled version and the manual action microtech socom full size was going for $335.00. OUCH!! Thank god for internet dealers. I asked them in a roundabout way if they did well and they said yes. Then I thought about all the poor souls who could own two for the literal price of one.
I've seen what I thought were high prices at a store, but nothing like what you just described.

Ron Knight