Audiophiles i need advice on what to get.

ACK!! dont even mention BOSE in any real HiFi discussion!!! :barf: :barf: :barf:

I third the Paradigm recommendation. Also agree about B&W, Energy, and Boston. Throw in psb and NHT for speakers as well.

Personally I HATE the new glitz/buttons/soundfields/functions/bullsh*t offered by most 'hifi audio' brands. Its useless garbage. True HiFi is back to basics.
 
Another vote for Paradigm here. I've got a Yamaha RX-V795 5.1 receiver hooked up to Paradigm Monitor 9 Fronts, CC-350 Center, Monitor 3 Rears, and Paradigm Reference Servo-15 subwoofer. They offer tremendous value for your money.

I took my co-worker to an audio shop to audition some speakers, and his ears made the same exact decision as mine: he got the series 2 Monitor 9s, CC-370, Monitor 3s, and PW-2200 sub. :D
 
Levinson anr ARC stuff eh? While you don't have junk now, it's a long way from where you were. I understand. I had a Martin Logan based system for several years (but not Statements) but sold it off to raise house downpayment money. It was the best thing I ever did. I miss my Logans, but my house has almost doubled in value in the interviening five years. These days I'm listening to a B&W CM6 based system powered by Rotel's best. It's not 801s and Levinson, but it certainly doesn't suck.

Regarding speakers, the Energys are ok, although in my opinion, not quite up to Paradigm and B&W. Boston Acoustic does not make the same kind of product they did some years ago IMHO. They've gone mass market. My boss used to be Boston Acoustic's national sales manager and I used to own a pair of their old A-100s. They're a perfect example of a company that started out building great stuff and got side tracked by mass merchants.

It's good to see Vandersteen mentioned. I thought about putting that in my original post but was trying not to drone on too long. In the secondary market you should be able to find a pair of model Ones in the $500.00 range. If you looked at an older set, you might even find a set of 2CI or 2CEs. Either of those would work well with a decent integrated amp. I lived with an old set of 2CIs for a couple years in the early 90s. Richard builds good stuff, but it's a little laid back for some folks.

FYI, both B&W and Paradigm make less expensive products than what I mentioned. I picked those models because I think they offer particurlarly great sound for the money. Really getting into high end sound on a budget price.

Good to see so many that really listen to their stuff. I guess the same type of personality that drives one to better knives, drives one to better sound as well.

jmx
 
Yeah, it's a very long way from where I was. But you know what? I actually enjoy it more now again. It was getting to where I was stressing about every little detail. Now I just sit back and enjoy the music again.

I had a pair of Martin Logan ReQuests for a while too, (you'll love this) serial numbers 000 & 001. :D First pair made. I actually had bought them used from the store I deal with. The original owner had ordered a pair of Quests, but Martin Logan called the dealer saying if the customer didn't mind waiting an extra week or three, they'd send a pair of the updated speakers instead. Of course he said yes!

I've gone through a bit of decent gear. 2 different Classe amps (10 & CA300), Snell Type D speakers, the ReQuests, 2 denon cd players, and when I was just getting into all the stuff, a whole s***load of Onkyo equipment. I went from the Onkyo system to the first rendition of the Snell/Classe/Onkyo setup. What a difference that was. The rest is financial history. :)
 
Not quite ReQuests, but close. I won them in a sales contes when I was still working the retail floor...:) Sales contests are the only thing I miss about retail.

I know the Classe stuff well. We rep them too...:)

I've been around the stuff too long, and I know I'll never get to own the best hifi out there, it just costs too much, even at the "Friends & Family" prices I get. I just can't suffer with bad sound. My system blows most folks minds, but to me it's just OK as I'm around the best of the best all the time. I don't get completely obsessive about my hifi anymore, but I still get to teach guys how to get other people to obsess about theirs...:)

Music makes life better, especially if you can really hear it.

jmx
 
I've taken the scouts to the local high end retailer who does national and international home automation and home theater installations. They were Audition and have recently changed their name.

The scouts are truly awed by what a quarter million in fine electronics will do. The Wilson Audio is impressive too, though a bit old, I guess. Years ago, I skipped purchasing the ADCOM 555 amp for a NAD. I wish I'd have gone with ADCOM. I still love my B&K pre-amp.

Phil
 
I'm looking into buying myself a music system as well. I'm on a budget as well. Here's what I'm looking for.

Amp:
B&K makes pretty good amps
Preamp:
Bryston has some smaller, less expensive preamps...good value used as they have a 20 year warrenty that is transferable!!
B&K (I don't like the PT-3 much, but the older MC-10 Sonata's are pretty good)
If I went older, possibly a Sansui
Speakers:
Paradigm Moniter or Studio series
Mirage pretty much rivals Paradigm in every aspect
Vandersteen makes phenomenal speakers, well worth the price


And while you're looking, check out the Linn stuff. Don't know about they're speakers, but their electronics and turntables are top-notch.

You're best bet is to look used as audio seems to drop in value very quickly. There are also a lot companies out there making very good audio equipment, so just buy what you think sounds good. Good sound is subjective, and everyone is different. The best thing to demo audio with are recordings that you know inside and out. Aside from that, classical and jazz are good, as well as other acoustic music. Distorted electric guitars will allow the speakers to hide nuances, some of which you might not like.
 
One brand that hasn't come up yet here is Bang and Olufsen. It's not the best of the best but I think it's definitely better than average. For a smaller space, it's nice stuff and it looks cool to boot.

Rob
 
cmx

This post is perfect timing. My brother just gave me some of his old equipment, so that he could upgrade. About 6 months ago, he gave me a Fosgate model dsl two digital surround processor and a Denon DAP 5500 digital audio preamp for me too use for a tv system.
Now he just gave me a Yamaha rx-v795a surround sound receiver. Also included was a good Counterpoint sa220 and a sa20 that needs some work. He wanted me to use the Counterpoint as a amp for my front speakers! Not! I told him that I would just use the Yamaha for tv sound sytem.
Now I will use the Denon preamp and the Counterpoint sa220 for my music sytem! Now I will use some cheap Infinty es 200's to hold me over till I can purchase some decent speakers. Also he included an Adcom gft 555 tuner and a Adcom slc-505 straight line controller(I don't even know what the advantage of this is, please explain), various Signet cables, Signet speaker wire, Mogami cable, monster cable and various gold monster cable connections.
So now to the root of my post. I need some quality speakers and cd player for very little cash. I know I know what you all must be thinking. However there are quite a few entry level components that can almost hold their own with the top equipment. I have been a subscriber to Stereophile for several years, but let my subscription end 5 years ago. At the time the best bang for the buck was the Creek intergrated amp, Epos speakers, Rotel cd, Nad cd, and I believe it was the Marantz 63 cd player. Also an amazing pick was the Radio Shack speaker I forget the model but didn't it have a hi-tech electrostatic speaker? Stereophiles raved about them and use to stuff their bass ports with soda straws. These were suppose to be awesome for classical music. And best yet was they had a 2 for 1 once ayear. If you remember the model please mention it. I think they went for about $180. a pair.
I am considering the B&W. I have heard that the 601 are to beat. How does the 602 differ and compare? Also I am interested in bi-amping. Do both these models offer this feature. I figure once I get that other Counterpoint sa20 running I could turn them into monos and bridge them. What is the best bang for the buck for cd players? I like to listen to jazz, rock and my wife oldies. I don't play music too much and not to loud, at least when my family is around.
A good book to get that has alot of good information and explains all stereophile equipment is The complete guide to high-end-audio, by Robert Haley. I would greatly appreciate any input. Good luck to all and welcome to another expensive hobby. Thanks.
:D :D :D
 
Did your brother deliver this bunch of stuff by truck? The SA220 and the SA 20 alone are back breakers! He must have been hiding a bunch o fstuf ffrom his wife tht he needed to unload quick!

I'll try to take these in order, but bear with me, this might take a while.

First the Fosgate: The DSL two was a nice add on surround processor that didn’t even support the now dated Dolby Pro Logic analogue surround format. An analogue only, add on, non amplified, surround processor is nearly valueless at this point. It’s not even heavy enough to make a decent boat anchor. Give it away. I see them all the time on dealer’s used shelves with a $100.00 price tag and a lot of dust.

IIRC, the Denon DAP5500 was one of the first Dolby Digital (AC-3) surround processor/preamp combos. It was originally around $1500.00 and while not state of the art, should still make a decent control center for a decent home theater system if you had a nice multi channel amp to go with it.

The Yamaha 795 would go on the auction block in my house, but is a one box solution that will get you set up with a surround sound system in a single box solution for free. Just don’t expect much from it sonically. It does at least have Dolby Digital and DTS surround decoding. If you’re thinking about a multi channel surround sound system for movies and a separate two channel system for music I can see keeping it for th eseconday surround system.

Regarding the Counterpoint stuff, if the SA 20 is not working, to me it seems like it’s in it’s natural state. They sounded great when working, but that was rarely, and that was when they were new! The good news is that the SA220s were much more reliable and if it’s working, it’s a pretty good sounding amp. I seem to remember that they were several thousand dollars when new. IIRC, it was a hybrid design that used tube input stages and a mosfet output stage. The input tubes could probably use replacing if they haven’t been attended to in a while. Old tubes will still work, even while degraded from age, but don’t sound as good as they could.

As to the Adcom SLC-505 Straight Line controller, that’s probably the best sounding “preamp” you have in this batch of stuff for pure stereo listening. The Straight Line controller (also called a passive preamp) is much like a preamp but has no gain-stage. What this means is that for a similar level of volume, you’ll have to twist the volume knob harder than on an active preamp. The good news is that by removing the extra circuitry from an active preamp to make a passive preamp, the signal path is simpler and generally introduces less distortion. For two channel music I’d pair the Adcom with a re-tubed SA220 and get ready for some real high end sound! All you need now are speakers and a source.

With your Adcom SLC505 and Counterpoint SA220, it would seem some speakers like B&W CDM7s would be more in order to really appreciate the electronics than the DM601s you mentioned, but that might not fit with your budget (CDM7s are about 2K per pair). The electronics are certainly up to the task.


I remember the Marantz CD63SE quite well, one still sits in my rack although current affordable CD players smoke it. The Radio Shack speakers you’re remembering were based on a unique tweeter designed by a company called Linaeum whom Radio Shack aquired for the technology. They never did make them work completely right.

Mike Elliott who originally designed the Counterpoint amps has a web based business upgrading those amps to his latest “Natural Progression” designs. The Natural NPS400 (successor to the SA220) was the best sounding Counterpoint amp I ever heard. Here’s a link:

http://www.altavistaaudio.com

I personally wouldn’t spend a nickel on the SA20, but if the SA220 can be maintained for a reasonable price, it will deliver a great sounding 200 watts per channel that will drive all but the most demanding speakers and is truly a high end design.

Regarding DM601 S3 VS DM602 S3 B&Ws; the difference is that the 602 has a much bigger cabinet, a larger woofer and overall better deep bass response. The 602’s are pretty competent as a full range (although still bookshelf) speaker where most folks might want a sub with the 601s. A Yamaha RXV795 will drive either choice pretty well and a Counterpoint SA220 will do a remarkable job, and would definitely be more than enough power for either speaker. Bi-amping would not be required on a speaker in this class and good amplifiers rarely sound as good bridged as when operated in their native stereo mode.

Looks like I skipped your tuner. The Adcom GFT555 was a pretty good tuner. Nothing wild, but very serviceable.

The Signet wires will complete a signal path and are better sounding than Radio Shack’s best, but can be easily bested by affordable stuff from several companies these days (AQ, Kimber, etc..).

Remember these are only my opinions.

jmx
 
This is a subject that hits really close to home. In 2000, my wife and I built a new house. In about 1996 I had put $500 in some stock thinking that it would grow a little, enough to buy a $600-800 TV in a couple years. Well, we all know what happened to the market, and with a few deposits into that stock fund, it ended up around $30k in 2000. So, my little TV fund ended up being a theater fund. We built the house and made the living room a dual-purpose theater/living room. Here's what we ended up with:

- Martin Logan SL3 Fronts
- Martin Logan Aerius rears
- Martin Logan Logos center
- Sony 53" XBR projection TV
- Lexicon MC-1 Processor
- Sunfire Theater Grand amplifier
- Sunfire subwoofer (amazing!)
- Sony's reference CD/DVD player
- Many other things, such as DSS receivers, house music system,etc.

My wife was sold on the system from the get-go, after watching a movie on a "real" hometheater, she wanted something similar for home, it was a ploy by the salesman but it sure worked!

Now the one thing that I didn't realize as much (I had heard it but didn't really believe it) was that the Martin Logan electrostatics magnify poor recordings. This is for sure true. A bad recording sounds terrible, but a good recording is a spiritual experience. Placement of the speakers is also critical, and after 3 years I still haven't gotten them just right ;)

I know that folks spend many, many thousands on home theaters, my boss owns a theater store on the side and his home system is valued at around $250k, so in perspective, mine is just a little system but it's all relative. The thought is this - if you're going to use good quality gear, make sure that the rest of the gear in the system is of equal quality so as to not have a weak link in the system.

Oh, and if you want a really great subwoofer, make sure you check out the Sunfire subwoofer. It's an amazing piece of gear, only 13" on a side, but it literally shakes my 2 story house, and it's only running at about 1/3 volume. I think they're about $1500 but if it fits into your system it's just an amazing machine.
 
If you can i would try to pick up a Carver amp on ebay and run it into some Klipsch speakers or even some Cerwin Vega's. IMO you cannot beat a Carver amp for the price, but they are not made anymore and tend to be a little pricy.
 
I used to be real interested in Hi Fi, had and still have pretty reasonable ears.

I listen to a lot of live music
(in fact I am normally out 7 nights/week with up to 21 gigs per week).

There seems to me to be a real difference between live and high end.
I think there is a tendency to to prefer clean-clean clarity sounds for Hi Fi,
and something quite different for live -
at least the blues, jazz, rock, ecclectic stuff I listen to.

It's somewhat like the way guitarists seem to choose the cleanest sounding guitars in the shop -
yet when I hear them play on stage they get this really nasty/dirty sound that everyone loves ....
so it's not surprising that they seem never to be satisfied with their new purchases :p :D :D

Can't put my finger/ear on it.

A lot is personal choice - but if one really wants Hi-End then perhaps a good starting point might be
Stereophile Magazine
and their
Stereophile Recommended Components
 
That's quite the system you've got there! Mine was almost the same with SL3s, a Logos, a Cinema Grand and a Lexicon that predateed the MC1. I have a soft spot for the Sunfire stuff we not only do we rep them too, but we've been the rep since before Bob Carver introduced his first Sunfire product.

Rifter: are you nuts? An old Carver amp and a pair of Klipsch or CVs? Ouch! My ears hurt just thinking about that combo. FYI though, if you're really into old Carver stuff, they have now set up a Carver service facility in the Sunfire factory if you need one serviced.

jmx
 
CMX
Thanks so much for your knowlegable answers. I value your wisdom and experience in this field. No my brother didn't have to hide it. He is going to upgrade every 10 years. Come on 2013!
It's great to know I have a passive preamp. I thought it was just a place to route all those wires! What threw me off was the inputs for the video monitor,vcr 1 & 2, dat and the other usual stuff. I would have thought that this would have needed some sort of electrical cord. I guess by cutting this out that was gives that cleaner sound.
I also recieved some new sovtec tubes for the sa220. They have written on them ecc88wa and hand written on them 6dj8. How would I know if they are matched sets? Also do tubes replaced after so many hours?
I really don't listen to much music at home, but who knows maybe I will get out some Miles Davis and get drawn back in. I am trying to keep cost down. I will probably go with the B&W. What would you recommend for a cd player. Could you please list some big bang for buck options for under $400 or so. Or perhaps a good used component price. I trying to keep total cost under $900.
I am in SoCal. Do you have any reccomendations on a place to sell/trade my denon and fosgate and not get the short end of the stick. Also any great places to shop for used equipment would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all your help and knowledge!
 
I'm telling you, the Fosgate is absolutely worthless. NO value! Dumpster stuff.

Regarding your new tubes, Sovtec is an old Russian company that has resurected their old tube manufacturing line and made some modern improvements. From the tube guys I know, they are the best bang for the buck in the modern tube world. For a matched tube set, you need to find someone who buys them in bulk and sorts and grades them. A matched set will cost 3X. The guys who are really in to tube stuff all look for NOS (New Old Stock) american and german made tubes like GE and Telefunken.

To stay within the $900.00 for both the CD player AND speakers I'd look for a Rotel RCD970, or RCD971 maybe even an RCD951 CD players. For speakers I'd look for perhaps a pair of B&W DM602 or DM603's of any vintage. If you're patient you should be able to find these used in your price range I'd guess.

I can't really recommend one dealer over another for professional reasons, but if you email me with your locatio, I might be able to point you to a couple dealers in your area.

jmx
 
Those Sunfire subs are intriging....I'm a huge subwoofer fanatic...what would produce both a high quality sound AND absolutely pounding bass (if I wanted it to be) across the room?

I have a 15" Klipsch sub right now....if I sit more than 6' away from it, it's unsatisfactory and that's with the subs volume pretty high.

Warthog
 
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