AUS-6 vs 440A vs 12C27 vs 1.4116

[dePaul]

So, what would be your choice and why?

~Paul~

 

[ian1001]

i would have to say 440A due to the fact that aus 6 just isnt as great as holding an edge in my oppinion. now, i do not have much experiece on the other 2 steels you have mentioned so i can not help you there. i would compare aus-6 more to 420 steel.

 

[okbohn]

12C27 heat treated by Mike Stewart at Bark River--it is very impressive stuff.

 

[znode]

AUS6, 440A, and Solingen are all in the same class. As such, performance difference is rather minor, and blade geometry and heat treat is much more important. 12C27 probably outclasses those three slightly, but still not enough to dominate other characteristics.

 

[Unsub]

I am not sure if 12C27 outclasses it or it is just used in knives that are heat treated much better.
Of all the "cheap" stainless I like 420HC ,the Sandvicks you see in the Mora knives and for a bit more cash 440C.

 

[Larrin]

12C27 definitely. Tighter composition, lower impurity, finest carbide structure, good potential hardness, high quality forging and annealing.....it's not much of a contest really.

 

[rifon2]

12C27 definitely. Tighter composition, lower impurity, finest carbide structure, good potential hardness, high quality forging and annealing.....it's not much of a contest really.

What he said ^^^^^^^^^

 

[alex750]

According to Cutlery Science web site 420HC out cuts 440C. I would probably not purchase
any knife in those steels, nor would I recommend such to anyone who was going to need
a knife for any serious cutting other than self defense.

 

[Smash05]

So all those people who have bought Buck Stainless knives for years are wrong?? I love premium steels, but companies that know what they are doing can turn out excellent knives in 420HC, AUS6A, and 440A no problem. The key is what they do with it. I have had knives that claimed to be 440C that were absolute junk, and 440 stainless knives that were excellent(assumption is 440A.) Its all in who makes it and puts the time in to make it right. Just like anything else, you cannot make generalized statements about blades or blade steels. You need to look at the maker, look at their reputation and go from there. I trust that Buck makes a good product, as I trust that Benchmade and Spyderco do. I trust a companies reputation far more than I trust grand claims about this steel or that.

 

[db]

Alex Cliff the guy who runs that web site also says 420 HC will out cut and out last S30V. I think I'd take this with a grain of salt.

The difference in steels is really dramatic when you move from one type to another (154CM, 440C, S30V are however all the same
type), but more important is knowing how to sharpen properly, picking the optimal edge angle and grit. Properly sharpened 420HC will easily out cut and
out last S30V in all areas of performance.
*
-Cliff

 

[Smash05]

To Answer though
12C27 - My Mora in this steel is outstanding.
440A - Always had good experiences with well made 440A, doesn't rust easy.
AUS6 - Have one blade in this steel, nothing much to tell yet, but it hasn't disappointed
1.4116 - don't have anything in this steel.
425M - what SAK's are made of - all good experiences
420 - Blades on my leatherman are 10 years old and going strong. Can't complain, they just work.

 

[znode]

According to Cutlery Science web site 420HC out cuts 440C.

Cite. Last I checked Cliff's site says no such thing, unless it's a commentary that says proper edge geometry selection/sharpening is more important than what steel is used.

I would probably not purchase any knife in those steels, nor would I recommend such to anyone who was going to need a knife for any serious cutting other than self defense.

Stainless Moras are 12C27(Frosts)/12C27M(Eriksson). Randalls are made in 440A. Ka-bar hunters are made in AUS6, and 1.4116 performs rather similarly to 425M in Victorinox. Generation have used Buck's 420HC steel. All these steels are, while not premium edgeholders, are tried 'n true user steel.

As have been said, these steels are very similar in performance, and blade design and heat treat is far more important.

Alex Cliff the guy who runs that web site also says 420 HC will out cut and out last S30V. I think I'd take this with a grain of salt.

Read the quote again for your proper comprehension. What is wrong with saying that properly sharpened and edged 420HC will outperform (improperly sharpened and edged) S30V?

 

[samhain73]

12C27 no contest. Rust resisting abilities of 440C, and wear resistance is equal of better, with the toughness of or exceeding the 420 series. Pretty much the most perfect "everyman" steel. Good edge holding, easy to sharpen, with great stainless properties.

 

[samhain73]

According to Cutlery Science web site 420HC out cuts 440C. I would probably not purchase
any knife in those steels, nor would I recommend such to anyone who was going to need
a knife for any serious cutting other than self defense.

And why not? Maybe if you have no idea how to sharpen, then a steel with less wear resistance could be problematic, but only at sharpening times, and good luck with a "super steel" if you have that problem.

 

[knarfeng]

AUS-6 vs 440A vs 12C27 vs 1.4116
So, what would be your choice and why? ~Paul~

For me, between those three steels, it depends on who's making the blade and how well they heat treat. IMO, all three are similar enough in composition that the heat treat will outweigh any inherent differences in the steel.

Example:
I've got a 440A blade that holds an edge quite well. And several that don't. But the Rockwell hardness of the good blade is 57 while the Rockwell hardnesses of the poor blades are around 52. Same alloy, different makers, different heat treats. Big difference in results.

As Unsub mentioned, it seems like 12C27 is more used by makers who are more careful, so the knives made with it typically have better properties.

 

[Dog of War]

12C27 definitely.

Most definitely!

.

 

[Confederate]

Just from my own personal experience with 440A from Cold Steel, I have found that it sharpens to a vicious sharp and holds it quite well. I have some of their plain edge Night Forces and Pro-Lites, and not only are they sharp, they can be resharpened easily and quickly when they do dull. I also like Cold Steel's AUS8, but I haven't fared as well with CRKT's AUS8, though I love their knives. Seems I can't get their blades to bite. Whether that's a function of the steel or the grind, I don't know, but it's something I've noticed.

Buck customers have long sworn by their 420HC blades and you can't knock personal experience. I don't much care for any 420 blade that's not HC, and the 420J2 is about as low as my junk meter goes. Gerber's started using some awful 400-series that won't cut plastic, so I don't buy Gerber any more at all. I have some EZ-Outs that are still in the packages, but I don't want anything to do with them anymore. Oh, and Cold Steel claims that its 4116 Krupp stainless outcuts the 420 and 440 series steels, which I have a difficult time believing, but who knows? I haven't tried it.

 

[db]

Read the quote again for your proper comprehension. What is wrong with saying that properly sharpened and edged 420HC will outperform (improperly sharpened and edged) S30V?

Is that what it says? Are you Cliff? Very inlightening. So what properly sharpened and edged cutlery steel will not out perform a improperly sharpened and edged cutlery steel?

 

[Ben Dover]

I recently bought a 12C27 knife from BRKT and, so far at least, I'm impressed with it. It seems to hold an edge fairly well in the field.:thumbup:

 

[znode]

Is that what it says? Are you Cliff? Very inlightening.

No, but I am capable of not misinterpreting quotes to bash someone (who is already banned, for chrissake).

So what properly sharpened and edged cutlery steel will not out perform a improperly sharpened and edged cutlery steel?

That's exactly the point of the quote! Read--

The difference in steels is really dramatic when you move from one type to another (154CM, 440C, S30V are however all the same type), but more important is knowing how to sharpen properly, picking the optimal edge angle and grit. Properly sharpened 420HC will easily out cut and out last S30V in all areas of performance.

It first says that performance increases dramatically between the classes of steel ("The difference in steels is really dramatic") -- but it goes on to say that the edge geometry and sharpening are EVEN MORE important than the steel type ("but more important is knowing how to sharpen properly, picking the optimal edge angle and grit"). Then he gives an example: a well-edged and sharpened low class steel ("Properly sharpened 420HC") will outperform even an ill-edged and ill-sharpened high class steel ("S30V"), thus reinforcing the point JUST ONE SENTENCE PRIOR that edge geometry and and sharpening are more important than just steel choice.

How is that not what it says?

You quoted the complete quote, but then just interpreted on the second half and went "look, look, he said 420HC > S30V!" as if the first part was never there. It seems almost intentional.