AUS-6 vs 440A vs 12C27 vs 1.4116

I said that I would not buy any knife in the lesser grade steels for serious cutting. Most of us carry for occasional tasks and most any reasonable steel will do if you don't mind sharpening frequently. I keep a set of crock sticks in the kitchen.
 
Yes znode, I completely correctly quoted Cliff, unlike you, without adding any extra meaning to the post. Secondly how is my post a bash on Cliff? Thanks for the lesson on how to misinterpret posts. You sure do argue alot like Cliff.
 
znode said:
It first says that performance increases dramatically between the classes of steel ("The difference in steels is really dramatic") -- but it goes on to say that the edge geometry and sharpening are EVEN MORE important than the steel type ("but more important is knowing how to sharpen properly, picking the optimal edge angle and grit"). Then he gives an example: a well-edged and sharpened low class steel ("Properly sharpened 420HC") will outperform even an ill-edged and ill-sharpened high class steel ("S30V"), thus reinforcing the point JUST ONE SENTENCE PRIOR that edge geometry and and sharpening are more important than just steel choice.

How is that not what it says?
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znode, I suggest you go look up the thread. You are currently arguing out of context and you are putting your own meaning into someone else's words. You are, infact, wrong. In db's quote, Cliff was NOT comparing properly sharpened 420HC with improperly sharpened S30V (which would be a pointless comparison, anyways), but he was making a very general off-hand remark. His point was (as is clear from many earlier statements of him) that he was trying to say that, IF (big if) properly heattreated, 420HC will support a finer edge than S30V and because it is able to support at the limit a thinner geometry, it can outperform S30V. In this argument, both S30V and 420HC are both sharpened properly to their optimum geometry. His statement was also to be taken generally for all stainless steels with high carbide fraction vs. those with low carbide fraction including 12C27.

Unfortunately, the "optimum geometry" is not exactly well defined and depends on user and application. Phil Wilson showed only days before Cliff made this careless statement that under conditions that he felt are ideal for both S30V and 12C27 that this statement does not hold water in at least one application, which negates Cliff blanket statement in which he claims that 420HC will outperform S30V in ALL areas.

This, btw., illustrates exactly the problem with many of Cliff's recent statements. It is not that they are all wrong or that the concept behind them is fundamentally flawed, but they are so careless, general, and off-hand that they sow misunderstanding and strive, just like between you and db...and by now I am not even sure whether that was intentional or not....which, however, is pointless to ask, as he has been banned.
 
OK, never than less. The general opinion is that 12C27 outperforms all the above mentioned steels when it comes to edge retention, right? ;).

~Paul~
 
Why did Cliff get banned ?
And 12C27 is what they use in Opinel (The SS ones) I would go for it, as it has worked in the past for me
 
If you look at micrographs of 420HC and 440A you will notice that the carbide structures don't look nearly as nice as 12C27 and 13C26. I have found even micrographs of X65Cr13, that didn't look nearly as good as 13C26. It does depend on the company producing the steel.
 
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